Boxer Rebellion

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JLEES
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Boxer Rebellion

Post by JLEES » 18 Dec 2006 16:34

The Kaiser sent about 3,000 German Army and Naval troops to Chinia to fight in the Boxer Rebellion. What date did they German troops depart and how longer where they there? Also, wasn't this the situation where the Kaiser used the term "Hun" to describe his own troops that was later used by the Allies in the Great War?
Thanks,
James

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Chris Dale
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Post by Chris Dale » 19 Dec 2006 22:10

Hi James,
I believe the actual number of troops sent to China was closer to 15,000 ( see also the discusion here- viewtopic.php?t=58473 ).

They left Germany in the Summer of 1900 arriving in August to Septmeber. The majority came home in 1901, a smaller Occupation Brigade staying on until 1909.

And, yes the Kaiser did give a notorious speech in which he told his men to act as the Huns had done centuries before. It was supposed to fiol them with national fervour to fight the boxers but it got taken up by the press around the world and caused quite a stir. It's discussed in some detail at http://www.boxeraufstand.de/

Cheers
Chris

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Boxer Rebellion

Post by JLEES » 19 Dec 2006 23:28

Chris,
Thanks for the great information! This is what I was looking for.
James

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Taigong
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Re: Boxer Rebellion

Post by Taigong » 01 Feb 2007 18:40

JLEES wrote:The Kaiser sent about 3,000 German Army and Naval troops to Chinia to fight in the Boxer Rebellion. What date did they German troops depart and how longer where they there? Also, wasn't this the situation where the Kaiser used the term "Hun" to describe his own troops that was later used by the Allies in the Great War?
Thanks,
James


Hi James,

The initial East Asia Brigade under Waldersee left on 27th of July numbering 2 Infantry Brigades each with 2 Regiments each of 2 Batallions of 812 men each, plus a mounted Ulan Regiment with about 600 men. A fieldartillery Regiment of 3 gun and 1 howitzer battery and a pioneer batallion with telegraph and railroad engineer companies. The East Asia Brigade also contained sanitation, train, munitions and other support troops. Other troops followed later making up for the total of almost 24000 men, including about 4000 men already stationed and in action in China.

The Kaiser actually used the term Hun to describe the Chinese not the Germans.
Hope this helps you
Regards
Taigong

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Chris Dale
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Post by Chris Dale » 02 Feb 2007 00:57

Hi Taigong,

Thanks for your contributions, although I'm pretty sure the Kaiser was comparing his own troops to the Huns when he said "die Deutschen, wie einst ihre Vorfahren, die Hunnen"- "the Germans like thier forefathers, the huns". There is however some debate as to whether he was saying the enemy will give no quarter, or should be given no quarter.

The speech is quoted and discussed at http://www.boxeraufstand.de/

Cheers
Chris

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 02 Feb 2007 01:17

Waldersee's force or part of it also disembarked at Shanghai on the way north?

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Taigong
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Post by Taigong » 02 Feb 2007 18:11

Chris Dale wrote:Hi Taigong,

Thanks for your contributions, although I'm pretty sure the Kaiser was comparing his own troops to the Huns when he said "die Deutschen, wie einst ihre Vorfahren, die Hunnen"- "the Germans like thier forefathers, the huns". There is however some debate as to whether he was saying the enemy will give no quarter, or should be given no quarter.

The speech is quoted and discussed at http://www.boxeraufstand.de/

Cheers
Chris


Hi Chris,

thanks for your comment, but I am sorry to tell you that I do not agree in this matter.
As you very well know, there are 2 speeches, 1 is official, the 2nd is unoffical meaning it was never proclaimed.
In the first speech the word Hun or even a comparrison between Hun's and Prussians (or Germans) does not exist.
In the 2nd speech, please see below:
Wie vor tausend Jahren die Hunnen unter ihrem König Etzel sich einen Namen gemacht, der sie noch jetzt in Überlieferung und Märchen gewaltig erscheinen lässt, so möge der Name Deutscher in China auf 1000 Jahre durch euch in einer Weise bestätigt werden, dass es niemals wieder ein Chinese wagt, einen Deutschen scheel anzusehen!"

There is no sentence or remark where it says: "die Deutschen, wie einst ihre Vorfahren, die Hunnen"- "the Germans like thier forefathers, the huns".

But it says: Just as a 1000 years ago, the Hun's under their king Etzel made themselfs a name which until today makes them last in history and fairytales as so huge and powerfull, as such should the name " a German" or "Germans" be proofen or confirmed by you in a manner that for a 1000 years and more no Chinese will ever dare to look "disrespective" at a German.

So I think it is very clear that the Kaiser never refered to the Germans as Hun's, compared them with Hun's, or even refered to the Hun's as being the "forefathers" of the Germans, but encoured them to make themselfs a name or reputation just as famous as the Hun's for history's sake.

Regards
Taigong[/i][/b]

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Taigong
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Post by Taigong » 02 Feb 2007 19:52

Peter H wrote:Waldersee's force or part of it also disembarked at Shanghai on the way north?


Hi Peter,

yes, Waldersee did have a splendid time in Shanghai before carrying on to Taku. It was in Shanghai where he also got involved in a "privat affair" with Sai Jing Hua a well known "entertainment lady".
I am surprised until today about Waldersee's "taking his time" to reach his actual destination.
By the way you yourself gave a very interesting link: http://dsr.nii.ac.jp/toyobunko.....ex.html.en , this link shows a photoalbum regarding the German East Asia contingent and its commanders and also Waldersee holding parades in Shanghai in sept. 1900.
Regards
Taigong

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Peter H
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Post by Peter H » 03 Feb 2007 00:47

Hi Taigong.

Thanks.

I get the impression that Waldersee was temporarily allocated with the defence of Shanghai,but this indicates it was more a staging base for further action:

http://www.earnshaw.com/shanghai-ed-ind ... pott16.htm

As the residents of Shanghai became aware of the dangerous situation in the North, it was realized that the conflagration might spread throughout the whole of China and that an anti-foreign uprising might break out in the Settlements. Shanghai was unprepared, as it depended for its defence almost entirely on the volunteer corps and the police force. It was not pleasant for those who understood the Chinese language to hear groups of servants and coolies speaking about the day of reckoning for the foreigners, and of the general massacre about to take place.

When Admiral E. H. Seymour of the British Navy visited Shanghai, after the failure of his attempt to reach Peking with a small relief force, the defence of Shanghai was seriously taken in hand. It was decided to make the line of defence on Defence Creek, and it was arranged to give rockets and flags to foreigners dwelling in the suburbs so that they could signal if their premises were attacked. Mounted Sikh policemen were detailed to patrol the outlying districts at night and to give warning of approachmg danger, and an appeal for troops was sent to the governments in England and America....

...Throughout this period there was great apprehension in Shanghai, and it was not until the British authorities sent a force of 3,000 Indian troops from Hongkong that a feeling of security was restored. The Chinese authorities objected to the landing of these troops, and appealed to the American Government to uphold them in their protest.

Failing to get encouragement from this source, the Viceroys yielded and the men who had remained outside Woo- sung since August 12 were, much to the relief of the foreign residents, landed at Shanghai on August 17.

The other Powers were unwilling to leave the duty of protecting Shanghai and the Yangtze valley entirely in the hands of one Power, and on August 18 the French landed a hundred sailors, and after a few days, 250 Annamese tirailleurs. These were followed in a short time by detachments of troops from all the nations concerned, and Shanghai took on the appearance of an armed camp....

...When Count von Waldersee arrived in Shanghai on September 22, a general review of all the foreign troops in garrison was held on the enclosure within the Race Course.

The force consisted of Rajputs, Sikhs, Baluchis, Ghurkhas, Volunteers, Artillery Companies A and B, Customs Company, Reserves, German Company, Japanese, French, Light Horse, Bombay Cavalry, Annamites, French Mountain Battery, and German Regulars.

Count von Waldersee arrived at eight o'clock in the morning, accompanied by Brigadier-General Creagh of the British Army, and carried in his right hand the baton presented to him by the German Emperor at the time of his departure.

In the march past the Germans led the way. The short, quick step of the little Ghurkhas aroused considerable interest, while the guns of the Royal Artillery, each drawn by six beautiful horses, excited general admiration.

It was the finest military display Shanghai had seen up to that time.



Regards
Peter

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Post by Chris Dale » 03 Feb 2007 02:29

Taigong wrote:thanks for your comment, but I am sorry to tell you that I do not agree in this matter.
As you very well know, there are 2 speeches, 1 is official, the 2nd is unoffical meaning it was never proclaimed.
In the first speech the word Hun or even a comparrison between Hun's and Prussians (or Germans) does not exist.
In the 2nd speech, please see below:
Wie vor tausend Jahren die Hunnen unter ihrem König Etzel sich einen Namen gemacht, der sie noch jetzt in Überlieferung und Märchen gewaltig erscheinen lässt, so möge der Name Deutscher in China auf 1000 Jahre durch euch in einer Weise bestätigt werden, dass es niemals wieder ein Chinese wagt, einen Deutschen scheel anzusehen!"

There is no sentence or remark where it says: "die Deutschen, wie einst ihre Vorfahren, die Hunnen"- "the Germans like thier forefathers, the huns".

But it says: Just as a 1000 years ago, the Hun's under their king Etzel made themselfs a name which until today makes them last in history and fairytales as so huge and powerfull, as such should the name " a German" or "Germans" be proofen or confirmed by you in a manner that for a 1000 years and more no Chinese will ever dare to look "disrespective" at a German.

So I think it is very clear that the Kaiser never refered to the Germans as Hun's, compared them with Hun's, or even refered to the Hun's as being the "forefathers" of the Germans, but encoured them to make themselfs a name or reputation just as famous as the Hun's for history's sake.

Regards
Taigong[/i][/b]


I stand corrected, you're right. I had only read the first part of the article and the section I quoted was not as you say from his actual speech but from a British newspaper retelling the story in a much exaggerated version later.

Thank you for correcting me.

Cheers
Chris

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Taigong
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Post by Taigong » 03 Feb 2007 13:02

Peter H wrote:Hi Taigong.

Thanks.

I get the impression that Waldersee was temporarily allocated with the defence of Shanghai,but this indicates it was more a staging base for further action:

http://www.earnshaw.com/shanghai-ed-ind ... pott16.htm

As the residents of Shanghai became aware of the dangerous situation in the North, it was realized that the conflagration might spread throughout the whole of China and that an anti-foreign uprising might break out in the Settlements. Shanghai was unprepared, as it depended for its defence almost entirely on the volunteer corps and the police force. It was not pleasant for those who understood the Chinese language to hear groups of servants and coolies speaking about the day of reckoning for the foreigners, and of the general massacre about to take place.

When Admiral E. H. Seymour of the British Navy visited Shanghai, after the failure of his attempt to reach Peking with a small relief force, the defence of Shanghai was seriously taken in hand. It was decided to make the line of defence on Defence Creek, and it was arranged to give rockets and flags to foreigners dwelling in the suburbs so that they could signal if their premises were attacked. Mounted Sikh policemen were detailed to patrol the outlying districts at night and to give warning of approachmg danger, and an appeal for troops was sent to the governments in England and America....

...Throughout this period there was great apprehension in Shanghai, and it was not until the British authorities sent a force of 3,000 Indian troops from Hongkong that a feeling of security was restored. The Chinese authorities objected to the landing of these troops, and appealed to the American Government to uphold them in their protest.

Failing to get encouragement from this source, the Viceroys yielded and the men who had remained outside Woo- sung since August 12 were, much to the relief of the foreign residents, landed at Shanghai on August 17.

The other Powers were unwilling to leave the duty of protecting Shanghai and the Yangtze valley entirely in the hands of one Power, and on August 18 the French landed a hundred sailors, and after a few days, 250 Annamese tirailleurs. These were followed in a short time by detachments of troops from all the nations concerned, and Shanghai took on the appearance of an armed camp....

...When Count von Waldersee arrived in Shanghai on September 22, a general review of all the foreign troops in garrison was held on the enclosure within the Race Course.

The force consisted of Rajputs, Sikhs, Baluchis, Ghurkhas, Volunteers, Artillery Companies A and B, Customs Company, Reserves, German Company, Japanese, French, Light Horse, Bombay Cavalry, Annamites, French Mountain Battery, and German Regulars.

Count von Waldersee arrived at eight o'clock in the morning, accompanied by Brigadier-General Creagh of the British Army, and carried in his right hand the baton presented to him by the German Emperor at the time of his departure.

In the march past the Germans led the way. The short, quick step of the little Ghurkhas aroused considerable interest, while the guns of the Royal Artillery, each drawn by six beautiful horses, excited general admiration.

It was the finest military display Shanghai had seen up to that time.



Regards
Peter


Hi Peter, interesting article thanks

However regarding the timetable information that I have, Waldersee's "trip" to Shanghai doesn't make much sense to me in regards to preparing a base or beefing up Shanghais defences.
According to the information that I have, the allies entered Peking on Aug.14th, and the victory parade in Peking was held on Aug.28th, 1 month before Waldersee arrived the Boxerrevolution was actually over even though Pao Ting Fu (Boxerheld city) was taken on Oct. 20th. So I don't really see a threat to Shanghai in reference to Boxers upon Waldersee's arrival.
But maybe I am wrong.
Regards
Taigong

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Post by Taigong » 03 Feb 2007 13:19

Chris Dale wrote:
Taigong wrote:thanks for your comment, but I am sorry to tell you that I do not agree in this matter.
As you very well know, there are 2 speeches, 1 is official, the 2nd is unoffical meaning it was never proclaimed.
In the first speech the word Hun or even a comparrison between Hun's and Prussians (or Germans) does not exist.
In the 2nd speech, please see below:
Wie vor tausend Jahren die Hunnen unter ihrem König Etzel sich einen Namen gemacht, der sie noch jetzt in Überlieferung und Märchen gewaltig erscheinen lässt, so möge der Name Deutscher in China auf 1000 Jahre durch euch in einer Weise bestätigt werden, dass es niemals wieder ein Chinese wagt, einen Deutschen scheel anzusehen!"

There is no sentence or remark where it says: "die Deutschen, wie einst ihre Vorfahren, die Hunnen"- "the Germans like thier forefathers, the huns".

But it says: Just as a 1000 years ago, the Hun's under their king Etzel made themselfs a name which until today makes them last in history and fairytales as so huge and powerfull, as such should the name " a German" or "Germans" be proofen or confirmed by you in a manner that for a 1000 years and more no Chinese will ever dare to look "disrespective" at a German.

So I think it is very clear that the Kaiser never refered to the Germans as Hun's, compared them with Hun's, or even refered to the Hun's as being the "forefathers" of the Germans, but encoured them to make themselfs a name or reputation just as famous as the Hun's for history's sake.

Regards
Taigong[/i][/b]


I stand corrected, you're right. I had only read the first part of the article and the section I quoted was not as you say from his actual speech but from a British newspaper retelling the story in a much exaggerated version later.

Thank you for correcting me.

Cheers
Chris


Hey come on, no reason to drop your head, anyway I was also partially incorrect,since the Kaiser also did not refer to the chinese as Huns.

By the way maybe you could help me on the following matter which I posted on Peter's and Glenn's thread:
Regards
Taigong

Hi Glenn2438

I am presently undertaking some research on this Albin Friedrich Wilhelm Theodor von Reitzenstein geboren in Mettingen Westfalen 1852 , who served in China in 1895, also stationed in Deutsch Südwest and returned to China during the Boxerrevolution. How come that you can recognise that this particular Officer is a member of the Garde Fußartillerie-Regiment ? do you know the Regiment Nr.? If you have any information in regards to this person I would be very gratefull to receive any information, e.g. how long was he in China, who hired him as an instructor? datas regarding his private live, etc. etc.
Regards
Taigong

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Re: Boxer Rebellion

Post by grassi » 15 Feb 2009 13:58

This is the war memorial in the community of Monsheim / near Worms.
It is dedicated to the wars of 1848, 1866, 1870/71 and to the Boxer Rebellion.
The Marineinfanterist Friedrich Weber was killed in 1900.
He was the son of the mayor.

The momunet was errected in 1903 and restored in 2001.
It was fabricated by the famous WMF factory.

The photos are a present of S., they were taken on August 10th 2008.

grassi
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tigre
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Re: Boxer Rebellion

Post by tigre » 17 Sep 2018 02:55

Hello to all :D; a little complement: The ill-fated expedition to Peking (Beijing) 1900.

In 1900, a violent rebellion swept through northern China: the Boxer Rebellion. The Boxers were a secret society that sought to rid their country of the pernicious influence of foreign powers that had gradually acquired absolute dominion over China. With the complicity of the Imperial Court, they besieged Peking's legation headquarters. Trapped inside were a variety of diplomats, civilians and a small number of troops. All of them had to defend themselves against thousands of rebellious hostile boxers and imperial troops. Now it would be a race against time. Could the defenders resist enough time for the relief force to free them?

As a result of this situation the foreign admirals assembled in the Council of war decided to send an expeditionary force to Peking to free the ambassadors from their dangerous situation. As ground troops were not yet available, the naval detachments of all nations represented by warships in the Peiho Estuary assembled to march on Peking. The German contingent consisted of 22 officers, 487 men with 4 machine guns.

This contingent was divided into four companies, whose leaders were, the Lieutenants (Kapitänleutnant) Buchholz, Schliefer, Hecht and Weniger. The leadership of this detachment was entrusted to the Captain (Kapitän zur See) von Usedom. The Germans were one of the strongest contingents with the English, who participated with 850 men; the rest was distributed among Russians, French, Italians, Austrians and Americans. The order was given to the superior officer, Admiral Lord Seymour, an Englishman, but his important orders were based on the decisions of the War Council, composed of the oldest officers of all nations represented.

Given that the small foreign naval detachments had been allowed to enter Peking unmolested, it could reasonably be assumed that a large landing Corps, transported by rail, would easily reach Peking in about two days. The only stop could be because of the destruction of the railway, but this could be repaired by the technically trained staff of machinists and stokers. As a result, the Corps equipment was insufficient for a long campaign in the middle of enemy territory. The German battalion was still better equipped, carrying supplies and ammunition for 16 days, as well as waterproof elements and wool blankets for the night.

The minimum necessary was carried by each man in a backpack, the tropical helmet would protect them against the rays of the sun. Heavy individual gear, supplies and equipment would be transported by rail. The equipment of the English, on the other hand, was very modest: they had provisions for two days, and only left thinking about a short trip to Beijing. Lord Seymour could not help but express his thanks to the German commander for the good equipment of the landing squadron. As the Chinese railway personnel stopped operating the railways, it was kept in operation by European personnel. The embarkation of the Expeditionary Corps in three trains took place on June 10 in Tongku, in front of Taku in Peiho.

Sources: https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin ... MDLOG_0001
https://www.ebay.de/itm/China-Lt-Friedr ... 0013.m1986

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Chris Dale
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Re: Boxer Rebellion

Post by Chris Dale » 23 Sep 2018 04:07

Thanks for that Tigre

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