Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

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Cristiano de S.O Campos
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Cristiano de S.O Campos » 17 Aug 2017 21:55

Hi

He is a german member of Schutztruppe, wearing a simplified version of uniform, because the uniform stock in German East Africa is too short and many german joined Schutztruppe and used whats uniform is possible in the beginning this new members of Schützenkomagnien wearing black-white-red armband, soon replacrd by ribbons in the same colour in the shoulders..The use of this is to avoid confuse with enemies uniforms in the battlefield..

In the Chris Dale webiste in the section German Reservist in East Africa you can find informations...included photos of this ribbon and armbands of IWM collection in London. Look the picture.

http://www.germancolonialuniforms.co.uk/


In These book abou a history of british naval officer captured by the Germans, read page 38

https://archive.org/details/twoyearscaptivit00holtrich


" When he saw the man who had been sent me, all over his face. He to fetch me was of a grinned German Colonial and was wearing ordinary type, white with the addition of a of badge black, clothes, and red on his shoulders. "

Again page 53

"Presently we passed three companies of soldiers drawn up in the street. Two of these were composed of natives, and one of Germans. These latter were mostly planters and traders from upcountry, a large number of whom had been called down to Dar-es-Salaam in of a expectation of a landing fron from the ships following on the bombardment. They all wore a sort of khaki uniform with a black, white and red ribbon on the shoulder, and a button in the same colour on their helmets."

Cheers

Cristiano Campos

Rio de Janeiro

Brazil.
Tanzania wrote:Another Photo with a Schutztruppen MG 08 in GEA. Unequivocal not recorded on site, but in the Photo studio.

To this two questions:

• To the uniform; What means the black and white (?) mark on the epaulette(s)?
• To the MG; What is the purpose of the textile cover on the water cooling jacket?

Bundesarchiv; Bild 105-DOA6744 Dobbertin, Walter, 1914-1918.jpgSource: Bundesarchiv; Bild 105-DOA6744 / Dobbertin, Walter, 1914-1918

Cheers Holger
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Tanzania
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Tanzania » 19 Aug 2017 14:01

Hi Cristiano

Thank you for your clear explanation. I did not think about that logic background and didn´t recognized the third, red strip
on the shoulder flap because he had the same colour on the black-and-white photo as the light brown colour of the uniform.
Bundesarchiv; Bild 105-DOA6744 Dobbertin, Walter, 1914-1918.jpg
Cheers Holger
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“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Cristiano de S.O Campos
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Cristiano de S.O Campos » 19 Aug 2017 21:18

I spent some years to research this. This the same uniform used by Askaris, more soft...without blue piping and without the intertwinned black white red shoulders board zig zag used by soldiers and Nco, i think this ribbon was a makeshift too
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Tanzania
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Tanzania » 20 Aug 2017 07:52

I think at the beginning of the war there were still enough possibilities and resources to equip the officers and crews as well as
Askaris of the Schutztruppen with the necessary means of identification. However, the longer this bush war lasted, the less
resources there were, and the more often it was confusion with the enemy. The lower picture of the 21th Field Company shows
no such black and white shoulder flaps or armbands. Presumably recorded in 1917 or 1918 in Portuguese East Africa.
CD3317201409553317_2014_0955_0068.jpg
Source Code: CD/3317/2014/0955/3317_2014_0955_0068
http://www.ub.bildarchiv-dkg.uni-frankf ... g&format=0

Cheers Holger
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palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Tanzania » 22 Aug 2017 05:22

Impressive scene with Schutztruppen MG in a prepared position.
Probably 1904 in GSWA. Please note the very shortened tripod.

Was it usual to fold up the Schutztruppen-hat on the right or left?
MG-Stellung-Schutztruppe-Aus_Africa-Museum-small.jpg
Source: http://www.gondwana-collection.com/blog ... -small.jpg
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Re: A captured German Madsen MG in East Africa?

Post by Tanzania » 31 Oct 2017 09:32

A captured German Madsen MG in East Africa, or did British troops use this Light MG during the East African campaign?

Any idea from a Madsen-MG expert? (especially danebrog!)

All photos are taken from the friendly owner of a British photo album who has posted them on flickr. I would want to rule
out a mistake or confusion, because all shots come from the initial phase of the British attack in the north of German East
Africa between Kilimanjaro and Pangani River between March and April 1916.
A captured German Madsen MG in East Africa.jpg
Original Source: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pennstate ... 810433503/

Cheers Holger
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danebrog
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by danebrog » 01 Nov 2017 07:22

Two of them were used by the Loyal North Lancashires, two more at the 25th Frontiersman Battalion, others were used (in equally low numbers)
by the Indian 17th Infantry and also the Cape Corps.
Rumors told the mechanics were prone to reliability problems caused by the climate

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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Tanzania » 01 Nov 2017 08:21

Thanks’ – Very interesting, that this fine light MG was really used in East Africa.


"First developed in 1904, the Danish Madsen is arguably the first light machine gun to be manufactured at a large scale. The Madsen
primarily was used by Imperial Russia, Austro-Hungary and the German Army during the First World War, these were primarily bought
before the outbreak of war. The British also manufactured a version chambered in their rimmed .303 cartridge however, because of
this it suffered issues with jamming but when chambered in rimless ammunition used by the German Army the Madsen functioned well.
While it was produced for over 50 years and purchased in limited numbers by 30 countries it was never widely adopted by any nation."
Source: http://madefrom.com/history/world-war-o ... d-war-one/

Here is also an interesting and detailed report about the Madsen MG in British service:
Source: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lord ... madsen-gun
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by danebrog » 01 Nov 2017 09:35

Rexer build the .303 chambered Madsens between 1905 to 1910 (till they had to abandon production due to license difficulties.)
These were sold to Natal in 1906, South Africa and also to the Indian Army

for the Natal camapign
http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol135hp.html
https://de.scribd.com/document/10895906 ... pactradius

for British service
https://de.scribd.com/document/10873444 ... pactradius

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Tanzania
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Tanzania » 02 Nov 2017 18:14

Your details complete the picture of this extraordinary weapon.

The only question which remains, is whether it was a mistake of the author when he wrote: "A captured German Gun" or, if he was right,
because this Madsen / Rexer MG was previously captured by the Germans, and subsequently retaken by the British?!? If I see the other
errors of the captions of this very interesting photo album, I suspect the former. It would be very interesting to know if this is the only
photo proof of this MG type in East Africa.

Unbelievable when we consider that this MG is still in use today: https://laststandonzombieisland.com/201 ... azil-2013/

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Cristiano de S.O Campos
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Cristiano de S.O Campos » 16 Oct 2018 15:48

Hello Mates

I ordered a colorization service for this wonderful photo , the colorization was made here in Brazil by the brazilian artworker Reinaldo Elias.

https://www.facebook.com/colorizandoopassado/?ref=br_rs

Cheers

Cristiano Campos

Rio de Janeiro

Brazil
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by stevebecker » 17 Oct 2018 02:09

Mate,

nice one.

Did you see the photos and movie film done (colorized) by the NZ Director for the IWM.

Amazing how they change our view of these shot and they bring them to life.

S.B

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Chris Dale
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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Chris Dale » 17 Oct 2018 20:13

Have you got a link for that Steve?
Cheers
Chris

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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by stevebecker » 19 Oct 2018 01:28

Chris,

Sorry mate I don't, I saw it on the TV News with an interview of Peter ? (cant remember his name but the NZ director of the "Lord of the Rings").

Which showed his changes to these old movies and films from the WWI held at the IWM.

These show how they now look as above with the German MG Gunner which look so real life.

Cheers

S.B

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Re: Machine guns (Maxims) of the Schutztruppe

Post by Chris Dale » 29 Oct 2018 00:26

Thanks Steve, I'll search for them...

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