Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

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Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Chris Dale » 29 Nov 2016 13:39

Hello all (especially Holger!),

Can anyone help identify this artillery piece photographed at the Lutheran Church in Lupembe, near Njombe in Southern Tanzania?
gun in tanzania.jpg
Photo credit: Liz de Leyser.

Cheers
Chris
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danebrog
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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by danebrog » 29 Nov 2016 15:16

No Krupp breech block, hence I would suppose it´s of british origin.
Muzzle part looks similar:
http://www.nam.ac.uk/microsites/ww1/wp- ... 100660.jpg

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Chris Dale » 29 Nov 2016 15:44

Yes, possibly a 12 pounder... MC Heunis just suggested that on another forum.

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by ROLAND1369 » 29 Nov 2016 23:19

British 12 Pounder Rifled Breechloading Gun M 1888 Armstrong.

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Chris Dale » 30 Nov 2016 01:45

Thanks Roland!

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by ROLAND1369 » 30 Nov 2016 04:43

No problem, glad to help.

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 30 Nov 2016 07:00

Good morning gents,

Chris many thanks for posting this interesting gun. It would be interesting to know more background details.

I would support the statement from Oliver and Roland that the old photo shows a British 12.5 pdr Maxim-Nordenfelt gun.
The horizontal hinges show a clear visible for the trick-block-lock of this old breech-loading-guns.

During the fights from 11th - 15th November 1916, Lupembe, the British force commanded by Lieutenant A.H.L. Wyatt
However used three muzzle- loading 7-pounders.
456.jpg
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“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 01 Dec 2016 12:04

Chris,

Did MC Heunis still have contact to Liz de Leyser?
I read her published: “A Guide to the Southern Highlands of Tanzania”, but of course can´t remember of her name.

An old friend, Father Wolfram Ngaillo who worked before long years in Lupingu Parish was send out by the Diocese
of Njombe in 2006 to Lupembe. But I am not be aware if he is still there, and I lost contact to him years ago.
The background of my question is: Make it sense to make next time a detour over Lupembe to take some dimensions?

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 04 Jul 2017 18:29

The `Lupembe´ Gun (Part I)

Photos from today, 4th July 2017 in Lupembe Mission:
02.JPG
03.JPG
04.JPG
05.JPG
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Last edited by Tanzania on 04 Jul 2017 18:41, edited 1 time in total.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 04 Jul 2017 18:32

The `Lupembe´ Gun (Part II)
06.JPG
07.JPG
08.JPG
09.JPG
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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 04 Jul 2017 18:37

The `Lupembe´ Gun (Part III)

Q.F. 12 PR. 8 CTW – No 1863 – F.G.F. 1904
10.JPG
R.C.D. – 12 PR Q.F. F.C. – S.
11.JPG
R.C.D. 1904. – No 327.
12.JPG
456.jpg

In the next step we have to follow and prove the detail history of this Gun.

Cheers Holger
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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 08 Jul 2017 15:46

Does nobody really seen that the Gun-barrel was (up-down) wrongly re-installed at the time? ( – Image – )

Otherwise the opening direction of the breach-block is not to the right, but would shall be opened to the left
and the joint of the gearwheel-segment, for the height-direction would be not below, but be sitting at the top.
001.JPG
002.jpg
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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 09 Jul 2017 11:40

Here are fantastic detail photos of a complete Gun from Harold A. Skaarup´s webpage, which prove finally the type in Lupembe.


British Ordnance 12-pounder 8-cwt QF Royal Navy Quick Firing Landing Gun, Maxim Nordenfelt

http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site ... to--4-.jpg

http://silverhawkauthor.com/images/site ... -photo.jpg

12-pounder 8-cwt QF Royal Navy Landing Gun, weight 8-0-0 (896 lbs), Gun Serial No. 1750, dated 1903, Breech Block Serial
No. 4444 stamped out, Serial No. 1750, 1917, Carriage weight 6-1/4-cwt, Admiralty No. 56, dated 1898, with Limber Serial No.
9049. Note that the breech for this specific gun is for a 12-pounder and a 14-pounder, which was a Maxim Nordenfelt competitor
to the 12-pounder. It would therefore appear the breech blocks were interchangeable. The British gunners apparently used the
same ammunition for the two guns. Canada may not have used the Maxim, although that needs to be confirmed.

The 12-pounder 8-cwt Naval Landing Gun was carried on ships of the British and Commonwealth navies for use by naval landing
parties. This one was made at Elswick Works in 1898. These guns were almost entirely restricted to use as naval landing guns
by sailors and marines. Its ammunition was separate Quick Firing (QF), which means the projectile and propellant were separate
loading, the latter in an ejectable brass cartridge case; this same ammunition was also used by heavier shipboard 12-pounders.
Typically, the landing gun appears on a low carriage, with small-diameter spoked wheels. Despite its 8 hundredweight (8-cwt), it
had the same length of rifled bore as the 12-pounder 7-cwt. Nelson Lawry. The Naval Landing Guns found in Canada probably
originated on early ships of the Royal Canadian Navy, such as HMCS Niobe, HMCS Aurora, HMCS Rainbow and others.
Original Source: http://silverhawkauthor.com/artillery-p ... o_421.html
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by danebrog » 09 Jul 2017 17:56

Probable competitor for Wintgens naval guns from Ngominyi?

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Re: Artillery gun near Njombe in Southern Tanzania

Post by Tanzania » 09 Jul 2017 18:19

You and your harmless sounding questions!?! ( - :wink: - ) I can be only very, very careful. ( - :lol: -)

What you mean with: Naval guns by Wintgens?

(Ich sitze jetzt in Bagamojo und denke hier bereits schon wieder in `größeren´ Dimensionen)
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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