von Lettow-Vorbeck

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Tanzania
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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Tanzania » 26 Jul 2016 17:18

(Let’s try to fill the summer gap – :wink: – )


1.) Did both photos show the same scene?
Yes! It is recognised that both photos demonstrate clearly the same scene from two different directions!


2.) Are the photos taken before or afterwards the signature of the peace agreement?
The question for the time is also directly linked to the location where both pictures was taken. We must accept that both
photos were taken at the same location so that also at the same time. But the initial situation looks as follows; for the
same scene and same time three different statements of place are mentioned: Chambezi, Abercorn, Lake Tanganyika.

Image . . . Image

The photos shows clear a greatly jetty at a River or a Lake. All three mentioned locations meet this requirement. Chambezi
is the River where the Germans receive the notice from the end of the War in Europe. Abercorn, with the nearby Lake Chila
is the town where the peace agreement for East-Africa was signed. Lake Tanganyika; in this case with Bismarckburg / GEA
were the place where the German troops embarked after the peace agreement and shipped on Lake Tanganyika to Kigoma.




So which of the three locations is quite understandable, logic and could be at the end correct?

a.)General Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck marching from the Chambezi to surrender in Abercorn on 25th November 1918
The Chambezi was at that time and at that area quite passable for shipping. It can be presumed that also few jetties
existed on the river. But not any source mentioned an operation in which the British and Germans used a vessel or
even a rowing boat. Also, there was no apparent reason why this should happen, because Kasama, where the Germans
troops moved afterwards, is directed widdershins. Therefore this recording location for both photos must be eliminated.



b.)General von Lettow Vorbeck, in command of German troops surrendered to General Edwards at Abercorn, Northern
Rhodesia on 25 November 1918
It is not to be expected that General Edwards invited von Lettow-Vorbeck to a rowing boat batch on the small Lake
Chila near Abercorn. Furthermore the, on both photos visible embankment doesn´t fit this location in no circumstances.



c.)German commander von Lettow Vorbeck and others about to board for German East Africa after the war at Lake
Tanganyika
The last mentioned location, Lake Tanganyika is the most plausible at present. In this case with the jetty at Bismarckburg
in GEA. The German Governor Heinrich A. Schnee, who attended the whole campaign 1914 - 18, explained in his book;
Deutsch-Ostafrika im Weltkriege, the last act of the Schutztruppe before and after the peace agreement in Abercorn. He
also described the way which the German troops took from Abercorn up to Bismarckburg and that all non-commissioned
officers and other ranks of the armed forces were embarked on the Belgian Steamer `Baron Dhanis´ and two other vessels.
Schnee and von Lettow-Vorbeck embarked on the British Motor-Gun Boat `St. Georg´. This happened on Tuesday morning,
the 3rd December 1918 at the pier in Bismarckburg at the south end of Lake Tanganyika and where the two photos was taken.



Image



Sources in English:

The Armistice and our Return home, Chapter IX, In: My Reminiscences of East Africa, By General
von Lettow Vorbeck, London: Hurst and Blacket, LTD, Paternoster House, E.C. (without year)
Page: 315 - 326,
https://ia802708.us.archive.org/8/items ... ttuoft.pdf

The last phase of the East African Campaign 1914-18; By L.A.Russel. Annotated by H.A. Crippwell,
In: Rhodesiana, Publication No.17- December, 1967. The Rhodesiana Society, Salisbury Rhodesia.
Page: 41 - 55,
http://www.rhodesia.nl/rhodesiana/volume17.pdf



(By the way; are there any informations about this `mysterious´ British Motor-Gun-Boat `St. Georg´ aviable?)
.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Chris Dale
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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Chris Dale » 26 Jul 2016 21:50

Good work, Holger. I enjoy reading your studies. I think you've solved this one..
Cheers
Chris

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Tanzania » 27 Jul 2016 05:43

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for your positive reply. My great passion is to try to analyse photos,
because as we saw it in other cases the written descriptions could be in many
times not correct. I come back with this in another topic where I need your help.

Cheers Holger
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Tanzania » 27 Oct 2016 04:02

.

Can someone confirm that the below pictured person was Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck?

Captain W. D. Douwnes, W.C mentioned this in his book: »With the Nigerians in German East Africa«

Image

Source: Page 282, https://ia800309.us.archive.org/18/item ... 00down.pdf
.
“Day by day and almost minute by minute the past was brought up to date. . . . All History was a
palimpsest, scraped clean and reinscribed exactly as often as was necessary” – G. ORWELL 1984

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck surrender

Post by samsona » 22 Sep 2018 19:08

Hello Holger
I would like to get in touch re the surrender spot - it is definitely on the Chambeshi. I have recently collated all the accounts we know of from those who were there. And would also like to know where you sourced the photo at #16 top left hand side as I haven't seen that one and would like to include it in a centenary commemoration publication. I'm still trying to find out who the photographer was.
Many thanks and kind regards
Anne (www.gweaa.com)

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Re: Lettow-Vorbeck Medals

Post by Gerst » 24 Oct 2019 19:34

JohnW wrote:
29 Jul 2003 21:43
Glenn and Dave,

Thanks for the help. This man has intrigued me for some time. I ran across the same pic a few days ago and was going to repost myself. Dave beat me to it. Thanks again.

John
Can anyone help me identify the medals in this photo>

Arnim

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Chris Dale » 25 Oct 2019 17:43

Hi Arnim,

Yes, he has a very impressive medal display starting in seniority with the Prussian Pour-le-Mérite with Oak leaves at the throat, below that is the Prussian Iron Cross Second Class, the Prussian Crown Order second class with Swords and the Bremen Hanseatic Cross. On his left lower breast is the Prussian Iron Cross first class. His medal bar was made prior to the First World War and shows the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle fourth class with crown and swords, Prussian Crown Order third class with swords, Prussian Officers Long Service Cross, South West African Campaign Medal, China Campaign Medal, Prussian Wilhelm I Centenary Medal, Württemberg Knight of the Crown Order with lions, Bavarian Merit Order of St. Michael third Class, Bavarian Military Merit Order fourth class with crown, Bavarian Military Merit Order fourth class with swords and the Russian Order of St Stanislas third class with swords. He was also awarded the Grand Commanders Cross of the House and Merit Order of Duke Peter Frederick Louis of Oldenburg with swords and laurel wreath, the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross and the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order commander second class, none of which are worn in this photograph.

Hope that helps.
Cheers
Chris

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Gerst » 25 Oct 2019 22:05

Thank you! Looking closely I can see that the 9th medal has an oval medallion so it is the St. Michael medal!. The last few are really squeezed in!
I found a post which also gives him the Luebeck Hanseatic cross also.

I just ordered his book. He is an interesting fellow and very easy to spot with his cap with the big Prussian cockade.

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Gerst » 25 Oct 2019 22:15

Hey, I just noticed that your icon is his cap!

Very flashy! My icon is my great uncle's unit on guard duty at the Neue Wache

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Re: von Lettow-Vorbeck

Post by Gerst » 27 Oct 2019 03:42

Chris Dale wrote:
25 Oct 2019 17:43
Hi Arnim,

Yes, he has a very impressive medal display starting in seniority with the Prussian Pour-le-Mérite with Oak leaves at the throat, below that is the Prussian Iron Cross Second Class, the Prussian Crown Order second class with Swords and the Bremen Hanseatic Cross. On his left lower breast is the Prussian Iron Cross first class. His medal bar was made prior to the First World War and shows the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle fourth class with crown and swords, Prussian Crown Order third class with swords, Prussian Officers Long Service Cross, South West African Campaign Medal, China Campaign Medal, Prussian Wilhelm I Centenary Medal, Württemberg Knight of the Crown Order with lions, Bavarian Merit Order of St. Michael third Class, Bavarian Military Merit Order fourth class with crown, Bavarian Military Merit Order fourth class with swords and the Russian Order of St Stanislas third class with swords. He was also awarded the Grand Commanders Cross of the House and Merit Order of Duke Peter Frederick Louis of Oldenburg with swords and laurel wreath, the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross and the Ducal Saxe-Ernestine House Order commander second class, none of which are worn in this photograph.

Hope that helps.
Cheers
Chris
How about this for the ribbon bar version?
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