German vs. German in open combat.

[Spandau Man]

I heard somewhere sometime of Heer units volunteering to storm an SS die-hard position during the last days of the war in Europe. Does anyone know of any case like this?

Thanks,
Jeffrey

[phylo_roadking]

Its been ages since I read anything about this, but I THINK I recall two such incidents, including a pretty open battle somewhere in Northern Germany.

[Peter H]

I think Charles Whiting mentions some Fallschirmjager being sent in against some SS diehards in a forest in April/May 1945.I think it was near Lubeck,and was authorised by the British.

[Spandau Man]

Do you know which of his 300+ books it was?
7th fallschirmjager division surrendered in that area to the British in '45

Thanks,
Jeffrey

[BeBe36]

does anyone know any details of Oberst Heinrich Remlinger in charge of the Torgau Prison around 1942. Kindly advise Bavno@aol.com

[Peter H]

Do you know which of his 300+ books it was?
7th fallschirmjager division surrendered in that area to the British in '45

Thanks,
Jeffrey

Hunters from the Sky,Charles Whiting,1975,page 231:

..according to the history of the 11th armoured Division.."In the Forest Segeberg..there were a number of SS troops who had decided to continue the war on their own.The Germans,therefore,undertook to enforce their surrender and 8th Parachute Division,the enemy formation in the area,was ordered to operate against them.In due course the SS surrendered."

I believe this encounter went on for a day or two,watched by the British.No exact date but around the 9th May 1945.

[Fallschirmjäger]

I remember reading this too of the FJ against the waffen ss,but i forget if the killed any or the surrendered when seeing there oponents.

[Jan-Hendrik]

Sounds like a typical Whiting-Tale...which "SS-Unit" should this have been?

Jan-Hendrik

[Fallschirmjäger]

I dont think its a tale,there where lots of die hard units and mostly waffen ss i think holding out,and the FJ being great troops too but having surrenderd it must be did not want to have these guys maybe wrecking a town? and killing when the war was over.Wish there was more on this too,like some facts in a FJ book maybe even,need to check mine but dont its in them from what i remember.

[Peter H]

Whiting gives as his source the British 11th Armoured Division history Taurus Pursuant: A History of 11th Armoured Division,published October 1945.

Apparently Pip Roberts,the divisional commander,received Dönitz's full support and assistance in dealing with this matter.

It did involve fighting between both parties.A surrender would not have taken 24 hours or more to resolve.

[Fallschirmjäger]

Just going over the FJ site is saw this mentioned,Peter H info is pretty much the same as this one,just different words etc...,info below.

Men of the 8th Parachute Division were called upon to neutralize a group of die hard SS and German Partisan's (Werewolf units) in the first days of May 1945. They dug themselves in within a forest called Forst Segeberg in Northern Germany. They were intent on battling against 2 Battalions of the British 11th Armoured Division. In Flensburg on the German/Danish border, Admiral Doenitz, now chief of state after Hitler's death, ordered them to surrender. When they refused Doenitz dispatched some splinter groups of the 8th Parachute Division to deal with them. Under the eyes of the British, a fierce battle broke out between the two German forces. The remnants of the fanatical SS Kampfgruppe surrendered a couple of days later.

http://web.archive.org/web/200603021723 ... k/misc.htm

[phylo_roadking]

FJ, thats the Whiting one all right - I remember now a "forest" and heavy cover being involved in the equation.

[Fallschirmjäger]

Well the site should have said i suppose it was from this book,and hard to believe that they fought each other after fighting the same enemy not long before.Like i wonder what the casualties where like for both sides and did the FJ realy want to do this or just following the new govt orders,and then many may not have liked the waffen ss and wanted to do this,some though may have not wanted to fight them?.

And i wonder if any other incidents like this happened with FJ or just other branches like heer and waffen ss etc...,and strange too being to branches of the german military people always said where the most fanatical i have read.

[Stephan]

I dont think it is SO peculiar. If the die hards refused Dönitz order, it was like a mutiny. And the usual is to cross a mutiny by lojal troops...
Capitulation against a much stronger enemy isnt no shame. But mutiny against lawful leader IS a shame a lojal troop tries to wipe out if ordered to.

[Peter H]

FJ and US troops both armed May 1945

http://www.fjr2.be/gr-Falschirmj%E4ger-341.jpg