Italian AA Guns

[YAN]

Hi, I am confused over the two different types of AA guns used by the Italian army during ww2,
Cannone Antiaereo da 76/16 Modello 34.
Cannone Antiaereo da 75/46 Modello 34.
are these two different guns ?.
I have tried on Wiki and cant find any thing on the 76/16 m.34 even though I read that they had 226 in service.
Thanks Yan.

[Valerio]

Hi, Yan!

The information that you've found on wiki is (I think) uncorrect and for this reason we can't find any thing on a 76/16 AA gun (at that thime, in Italy, there was in service the 76/17 gun, but it was only an howitzer and not an AA gun).

In fact, at the outbreak of the war, the Italian Army had 2,606 AA guns in service, exactly these models:

20 AA guns 20/60;
1,160 AA guns 20/65;
24 AA guns 20/70;
141 AA guns 37/40;
18 AA guns 66/47;
250 AA guns 75/27;
92 AA guns 75/46;
492 AA guns 76/40;
232 AA guns 76/45;
90 AA guns 77/28;
36 AA guns 88/56;
41 AA guns 100/47;
110 AA guns 102/35.

Ciao
Valerio

[Dili]

You can't have a 76/16 AA gun. It will not work.

[YAN]

Thanks guys, I have this on file, its the only gun I have with proper data on this size of Italian AA Guns.

Cannone Antiaereo da 76/40 Modello 34
SPECIFICATIONS
TYPE = Medium AA Gun.
AMOUNT = 226
PRODUCTION = 1934
CALIBRE = 75mm.
BARREL LENGTH = L/40. ?
ELEVATION = -2 to +90 degrees.
TRAVERSE = 360 degrees.
WEIGHT = 3.300 kg.
RATE OF FIRE = 20 r.p.m.
MUZZEL VELOCITY = 800 m/s.
AMMUNITION = HE 6.5 kg.
CREW = 7.
MAXIMUM RANGE (GROUND TARGETS) = 13000m
MAXIMUM CEILING = 8.500m
ARMOUR PENETRATION = (AP) 93mm @ 500m @ 30 degrees.
TRACTION = MOTORISED.

Thanks Yan.

[Dili]

That gun doesn't exist. 76/40 and saying then "calibre:75mm"? Plus the 800m/s.
There is a DICAT and Regia Marina gun called 76/40 w/ 640-740m/s. It is a design from WW1.

here are some AA guns http://www.grifoarciere.org/default.asp?pid=26

if you search here in forum there are several information. Also in Comando Supremo.

Plus this http://www.italie1935-45.com/RE/photosc ... opere.html

[YAN]

Thanks for the links Dili, I found this on them.

Cannone da 75/46 Modello 34
Firm Manufacturer: ANSALDO (ITALY).
Service: from 1934.
Calibre: 75mmL/46;
Barrel length: 600 cm
Weight in action 3,300 kg;
Elevation: 2° to + 90°;
Traverse: 360°;
Muzzle velocity: 750 m/s;
Shell weight: 6.5 kg;
Ceiling: 8.500m
Ground fire: 13.000m

Was this the most common of the Italian 75mm AA guns used in WW2.

[Dili]

If you restrict to 75mm(not including 76mm) at war start there were more 75/27- the sum of land ones 75/27AV 94 in DICAT- Milizia Airdefense- with autocannone 75/27CK of Regio Esercito- more than 100-it was 166 in 1939- are more than 200. while there was probably only 100 75/46 at War Start. In later war the 75/46 all models including fixed for milizia beat the 75/27 with more than 300.
If you include 76mm then 76/40 beats everyone with 400-500 in Dicat and number near it in Naval Bases. 99% of them Fixed at war start.

[YAN]

That is good to know thanks Dili, I didnt even consider 76mm Guns because I thought that they were in the same class as the 77/28 and only used in small numbers, so this info has opened up a new field for me,

[YAN]

One question for anyone out there, I cant fill in the data below on the AUTOBLINDA 611,
1 x CANNONE DA 37/45 (what kind of gun is this ?)
ARMOUR PENETRATION =
MAXIMUM HE RANGE =
ARMOUR
UPPER HULL FRONT =
LOWER HULL FRONT =
HULL SIDE =
LOWER HULL =
HULL ROOF =
HULL REAR =
TURRET FRONT =
GUN MANTLET =
TURRET SIDE =
TURRET REAR =
TURRET ROOF =

Hope anyone can help, Yan.

[Dili]

37/40 it is the gun of M11/39

I don't have the data you request.

[YAN]

Thanks Dili, its a shame when Vehicles which were in use only 60 or 70 years ago just fade away, I love trying to get stuff on rare AFVs and post them on sites for when anyone requests them. At the moment I am trying to find out the maximum HE range of various Italian tank guns,
13.2mm Breda M.31 H.M.G (CARRO COMMANDO M41/42
Cannone da 47/40 Ansaldo (M15/42)
CANNONE ANTICARRO 75/46 M34 (SEMOVENTE DA 75/46 M.42T)
ANSALDO DA 105/25 HOWITZER (SEMOVENTE DA 105/25 M.42T)
Because you hear all the time about the armour penetration of these guns and you cannot find the HE capabilities, I have tried site on the ground versions on these guns but the elevation is different.
Thanks Yan.

[Dili]

What do you mean by "maximum"? ballistic range,firing while pointed to 45º vertical? that doesn't tell you much.
If you want to know it anyway you can extrapolate from several guns here that lists ranges vs angle http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/index_weapons.htm. But no one will be firing 47mm rounds to 4km even if the gun is capable of it, the error will be too big.

The fact is that the only guns capable of tense trajectories over 1km - read: you point and you hit - are the heavy AA guns with high speed rounds. Any other gun is without that characteristics and you will be using it like short range artillery.

[YAN]

I know what you mean Dili, its just that I have elevations of all the Italain guns mounted on AFVs (except the 13mm M.38, AB 611 & AB 40) and I have the maximum ranges for nearly all of them (except the ones above and the 75/27 mounted on the AUTOCANONNE SAHARIAN CORTA 75/27) and I was just trying to finnish the job.
Thanks Yan.

[Denniss]

37/45 is the italian designtion for the german 37mm Pak which Italy either bought, was given or built under license

[Phaing]

Hi, Yan!

The information that you've found on wiki is (I think) uncorrect and for this reason we can't find any thing on a 76/16 AA gun (at that thime, in Italy, there was in service the 76/17 gun, but it was only an howitzer and not an AA gun).

In fact, at the outbreak of the war, the Italian Army had 2,606 AA guns in service, exactly these models:

20 AA guns 20/60;
1,160 AA guns 20/65;
24 AA guns 20/70;
141 AA guns 37/40;
18 AA guns 66/47;
250 AA guns 75/27;
92 AA guns 75/46;
492 AA guns 76/40;
232 AA guns 76/45;
90 AA guns 77/28;
36 AA guns 88/56;
41 AA guns 100/47;
110 AA guns 102/35.

Ciao
Valerio

No 90mm guns were available in mid-1940, at all?

Interesting that there were 88mm guns, I assume they were with the Armored Divisions... ?