Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
Brady
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 10 Aug 2019 01:36

The coal needed for industry, was obviously consumed locally, that is for the individual plants, and some of the RR, some unknown amount for shipping

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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 14 Aug 2019 02:20

What if any, Industry was in Libya during the Pre war period and during the war years ? I am drawing a bit of a blank searching for it.

Dili
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Dili » 14 Aug 2019 03:06

That depends what do you mean by industry... some ceramics, some agriculture, some iron forging, there would be of course some engine car and aircraft repair most of it in armed forces workshops. I wasn't able to find how much cement it produced, if any.

Brady
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 14 Aug 2019 03:16

Yes that was a bit vague, something not military, Manufacturing or resource processing, something they would ship back to Italy, “goods”

Brady
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 14 Aug 2019 03:53

Brady wrote:
14 Aug 2019 03:16
Yes that was a bit vague, something not military, Manufacturing or resource processing, something they would ship back to Italy, “goods”
This: In 1936, the main sectors of economic activity in Italian Libya (by number of employees) were industry (30.4%), public administration (29.8%), agriculture and fishing (16.7%), commerce (10.7%), transports (5.8%), domestic work (3.8%), legal profession and private teaching (1.3%), banking and insurance (1.1%).[2] (from wiki)

Apparently Fiat had a manufacturing plant there ?

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DrG
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by DrG » 14 Aug 2019 14:06

Brady, honestly I cannot understand your approach to this topic, it looks like you are jumping from an aspect to another. Moreover, "what ifs" are the best way to waste time for somebody interested in history, especially trivial ones like this. Libya, until the large exploitation of gas and oilfields in the Sixties-Seventies, had always been the most backward country in North Africa, with a subsistence economy cut away from any international trade route. With less than a million inhabitants in 1939, no raw materials and no known natural energetic sources, what kind of industry should it develop and for what reason, given also that even Italy was far from bein an industrialized country? Even much larger and richer colonies/countries like Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and Egypt had no industrial plant in the Thirties or Forties (and it was one of the main reasons which made any idea of a French resistance in its colonial empire in 1940 pure idiocy...).

The economic sectors statistics that you have provided are extremely misleading: with "industry" they mean "artisan sector", nothing more. And, honestly, they seem very imprecise, too.

Dili
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Dili » 14 Aug 2019 16:13

Yeah Brady you are inventing things out of thin air.
If you want to check if a country has even some industry start by checking how much cement it produces. Libya not even produced enough to appear in League of Nations statistics.

Brady
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 14 Aug 2019 16:58

The figures I quoted above came from this source (via wiki):

Image

Given the rather ambiguous nature of the figures, I wanted some clarification, I am no making anything up, mealy seeking the truth.

I have read in two separate places that Fiat had a facility in Libya pre war, but I cant find any "proof" of its existence

I am Jumping around a bit, but I am skipping over stuff that either know enough about, or don't realize I need to know more about :)

Libya is very relevant to my needs, it may well be irrelevant in understanding Italy's over all Economy or her Industrial bases, but its part of a larger Picture

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DrG
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by DrG » 14 Aug 2019 17:09

Thanks for the source, but as you have certainly seen in page 270 of it, the data that you have provided about Libyan economic sectors do not come from ISTAT itself (which, anyway, is subject to estimation error too), but from a paper by a University professor discussed at a conference organized by the ISTAT, which is based on a rather obscure German source, i.e.: Herkommer J. 1941. Libyen von Italien Kolonisiert. Ein Betrag zur vorbildlichen Kolonialpolitik Italiens in Nordafrika. Libyens Geschichte-Land und Leute-Industrie und Handel. Freiburg im Breisgau: J. Bielefelds Verlag.
It is pretty clear that we are talking about an incorrect ("industry" in place of "artisanship") translation of a German "official estimate" (whatever the paper means by the words "stime ufficiali": how could a German book provide official estimates for an Italian land?) published in 1941 about the situation of an Italian colony in 1936. In other words, we are wasting our time talking about thin air.

About a FIAT plant in Libya, I have never read about it, but if it ever existed I am 99.99% confident that it was a mere workshop for maintenance and repair of vehicles.

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DrG
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by DrG » 14 Aug 2019 17:15

Just out of curiosity, Brady, which are your needs to which you refer? Are you writing something, or is it just a pastime?

Brady
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 14 Aug 2019 17:32

DrG wrote:
14 Aug 2019 17:15
Just out of curiosity, Brady, which are your needs to which you refer? Are you writing something, or is it just a pastime?
Its a project I am working on

Dili
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Dili » 14 Aug 2019 17:44

Italian colonies were political fashion, vanity, they gave almost nothing back to Italy except for politicians to show the people that the country had colonies like other European countries so they could call themselves advanced civilization since colonialism at time was a status signal ... but they were a sunk cost for Italy in liras and blood.
And being late to the colonialist "party" Italy got only what remained to be taken without entering in War with other European nations.

Brady
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Brady » 21 Aug 2019 16:33

Apart from Aluminum and Food, and manpower, What did Italy send to Germany, it was mentioned above that Italy Gave Germany more than it received from her ?

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DrG
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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by DrG » 21 Aug 2019 22:12

I haven't the list of main exports to Germany, but I recall that some raw materials not produced in Germany were among them, like mercury and asbestos. Maybe also artificial fibers. But the main exports were the ones already mentioned.

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Re: Italian Stratigic Resources and Industry

Post by Dili » 21 Aug 2019 23:49

Industry manufactured stuff, like gun tubes - i think for 88 - many diverse components for German weapons, engines, etc , ball bearings from RIV factory etc.

You might like this chart from The Italian Colonial Empire
68.jpg
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