Italian Suport Units

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Brady
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Italian Suport Units

Post by Brady » 22 Aug 2019 16:01

There would seam to be a relative dearth of info on Italian Support units, Specifically I am looking for info on:

Italian RR Support units that built and maintained and operated Trains in North Africa

Construction Units that undertook airfield or Road construction work

Fortification work

Airfield support Units

Seaplane base support units

Port Support units

Moral and Medical Support units (these two are linked, Socially… )

exc...

Image

Any help again in this mater would be greatly apricated, I know its a broad subject, but any little piece of it would chip away at a big unknown

Brady
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Brady » 23 Aug 2019 19:53

Below we can use Leros as an example,

For Example this is know:

Leros Naval Batteries:

Ducci ( four 152mm L/50 & one 120mm L/45 at Mount Cazzuni – Katsouni )
San Giorgio ( three 152mm L/40 & one 102mm L/35 at Mount Scumbarda )
Ciano ( four 152mm L/40 at Mount Clidi – Kleidi - )
Farinata ( four 120mm L/45 at Mount Marcello – Markelos - )
Lago ( four 120mm L/45 at Mount Appetici – Apetiki - )
P.L. 388 ( four 102mm L/35 at Mount Diaporoi )
P.L. 899 ( four 76mm L/50 at Cape Asfougaros )
P.L. 690 ( two 76mm L/50 at Santa Marina, Castello dei Bronzi )
P.L. 508 ( two 76mm L/50 at Mount Crumidi – Kromydi - )
P.L. 250 ( three 76mm L/40 at Cape Cazzuni – Katsouni - )
P.L. 432 ( three 76mm L/40 at La Madonna )
P.L. 306 ( two 76mm L/40 at Mount Vigla )
P.L. 763 Alinda ( two 76mm L/40 at Alinda )
P.L. 763 Gurna ( two 76mm L/40 at Gurna – Gourna - )

Leros AA Batteries

P.L. 113 ( four 76mm L/40 at Mount Zuncona – Tsikounas - )
P.L. 248 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Palma – Vagias - )
P.L. 262 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Scumbarda )

Leros Naval DP Batteries

P.L. 306 ( six 102mm L/35 at Mount Vigla )
P.L. 211 ( four 102mm L/35 at Mount Rahi )
P.L. 227 ( four 102mm L/35 at Cape Cazzuni – Katsouni - )
P.L. 127 ( six 90mm L/53 at Mount Meraviglia – Merovigli - )
P.L. 281 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Diaporoi )
P.L. 906 ( four 76mm L/40 at Mount Mouplogourna )
P.L. 989 ( four 76mm L/40 at Cape Timari – Thimari - )
P.L. 888 ( four 76mm L/40 at Blefuti )
P.L. 749 ( four 76mm L/40 at Arcangelo Island – Arhangelos - )

Image

But What units were actually stationed there manning those guns and the Naval base, and the Sea Plane base, the Support Personnel …

The Hope is that someplace there is a list of similar Support troops and the organization, not just for base forces, but for RR Support units and all manner of support unit

Dili
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Dili » 23 Aug 2019 23:59

You will not get specifics... you had a regiment of genio ferroviario that worked as a pool/depot/training sending people everywhere where it was needed, There was also milizia ferroviaria but this was more of police i think.

Most people in naval bases were Milmart, milizia artileria maritima , but keep in mind things in Italy were fluid and army guns with army crew could be employed also for coastal defense.

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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Brady » 24 Aug 2019 03:46

Dili wrote:
23 Aug 2019 23:59
You will not get specifics... you had a regiment of genio ferroviario that worked as a pool/depot/training sending people everywhere where it was needed, There was also milizia ferroviaria but this was more of police i think.

Most people in naval bases were Milmart, milizia artileria maritima , but keep in mind things in Italy were fluid and army guns with army crew could be employed also for coastal defense.
So they weren’t actually proper units the way that you would normally think of them, but loosely organised and created to fit a specific need?

Dili
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Dili » 25 Aug 2019 19:53

I know a company was sent to repair the rail bridge of Corinth channel, but i don't have details. In Libia there weren't any relevant railways. Only in Egypt the Marsa Matruh-Alexandria-Cairo etc.

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David W
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by David W » 26 Aug 2019 09:47

How about....

1 - IV Battaglione Lavoratori. & V - VII Battaglione Lavoratori?

They were present in North Africa from 1941.

Brady
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Brady » 26 Aug 2019 15:59

David W wrote:
26 Aug 2019 09:47
How about....

1 - IV Battaglione Lavoratori. & V - VII Battaglione Lavoratori?

They were present in North Africa from 1941.
This was actually a big help, tiny bits of info like that can open doors, because its info we can search with, Thanks!

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David W
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by David W » 26 Aug 2019 16:12

Pleasure!

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Loïc
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Re: Genio Ferrovieri della Libia

Post by Loïc » 26 Aug 2019 23:32

hello

instead of battalions I think that both 4th and 5th in North Africa are Operating lines Sections 4a 5a Sezione Esercizio linee, and the 7th Labour Battalion

the Italian Army Railways Engineers Regiment Reggimento Genio Ferrovieri mobilised for the War 13 Railways Battalions di lavoro (labour) including one metal pontoon company by battalion di Lavorati (workers), there were also 3 Groups of 5 Sections each esercizio delle linee (operating lines)

http://www.arsmilitaris.org/pubblicazio ... ovieri.pdf

page 25 --> # 4.4.5 Northern African Front

in august 1942 came the 6a Compagnia, 5a Sezione Esercizio and elements of the 4a Sezione Esercizio more 7° Battaglione ferrovieri staff
in september the Raggruppamento Ferrovieri covering units already there, one Compagnia esercizio ferrovieri, one militarized civilians workers company as railways guards, a corps of 150 pontoneers, 2 autonomous infantry companies (101a 102a) for railways security

The Railways corps were used to build the Bir Suesi-Tobruk line
in the line operating sector the limited power of oil-fired locomotives, made necessary to constitute convoys with a limited number of wagons. Far greater difficulties were represented by the attacks of the English (sic), who forced to insert in the convoys, wagons equipped with anti-aircraft machine guns. Another pitfall was represented by the actions of the English (sic) "commandos" coming from both the sea and the desert. After El Alamein, some units backed home while the 7th Battalion was engaged in the destruction of facilities and rolling stock, in sabotage and various interruptions, as well as in the construction of defensive works and finally, directly, in combat


with some pictures more, pages 332-338
https://fr.calameo.com/read/005182420c0b515c45cf3

Brady
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Brady » 27 Aug 2019 01:57

! Thanks Again, Great References :)

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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by zaptiè » 06 Sep 2019 16:35

In Italian Army support role was competence of "Genio"( engineers) Corp with his severan branch.
The same for Navy ( Genio Navale). Air Force had "Genio Aeronautico" and the " Service" Corp.
The R.A. had also a specian unit , Btg"Loreto" for preparation and riadaptament of airfield in enemy territory.
(The Loreto name derivated from the town of Loreto where is believed that is located the original house of the Virgin Maria , transported here by Angels).

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Loïc
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Re: Italian Support Units

Post by Loïc » 06 Sep 2019 19:22

Actually for Italian Army "support" units, I imagined all but Engineers Arm
-Transport & Material units
-Medical, Veterinary & SMOM Ordine di Malta
-Commissariat (Quartermaster)
-Chemical Warfare Service units
others...

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Urmel
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Re: Italian Suport Units

Post by Urmel » 11 Sep 2019 15:32

Dili wrote:
25 Aug 2019 19:53
I know a company was sent to repair the rail bridge of Corinth channel, but i don't have details. In Libia there weren't any relevant railways. Only in Egypt the Marsa Matruh-Alexandria-Cairo etc.
The picture in the OP is almost certainly from North Africa?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Libya_Railways
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41

The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42

Brady
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Re: Italian Support Units

Post by Brady » 15 Sep 2019 17:53

Loïc wrote:
06 Sep 2019 19:22
Actually for Italian Army "support" units, I imagined all but Engineers Arm
-Transport & Material units
-Medical, Veterinary & SMOM Ordine di Malta
-Commissariat (Quartermaster)
-Chemical Warfare Service units
others...
Italian supply/transport/service units ?

Any clue on these there numbers and Organization ?

Names of...

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