Italian Suport Units
Italian Suport Units
There would seam to be a relative dearth of info on Italian Support units, Specifically I am looking for info on:
Italian RR Support units that built and maintained and operated Trains in North Africa
Construction Units that undertook airfield or Road construction work
Fortification work
Airfield support Units
Seaplane base support units
Port Support units
Moral and Medical Support units (these two are linked, Socially… )
exc...
Any help again in this mater would be greatly apricated, I know its a broad subject, but any little piece of it would chip away at a big unknown
Italian RR Support units that built and maintained and operated Trains in North Africa
Construction Units that undertook airfield or Road construction work
Fortification work
Airfield support Units
Seaplane base support units
Port Support units
Moral and Medical Support units (these two are linked, Socially… )
exc...
Any help again in this mater would be greatly apricated, I know its a broad subject, but any little piece of it would chip away at a big unknown
Re: Italian Suport Units
Below we can use Leros as an example,
For Example this is know:
Leros Naval Batteries:
Ducci ( four 152mm L/50 & one 120mm L/45 at Mount Cazzuni – Katsouni )
San Giorgio ( three 152mm L/40 & one 102mm L/35 at Mount Scumbarda )
Ciano ( four 152mm L/40 at Mount Clidi – Kleidi - )
Farinata ( four 120mm L/45 at Mount Marcello – Markelos - )
Lago ( four 120mm L/45 at Mount Appetici – Apetiki - )
P.L. 388 ( four 102mm L/35 at Mount Diaporoi )
P.L. 899 ( four 76mm L/50 at Cape Asfougaros )
P.L. 690 ( two 76mm L/50 at Santa Marina, Castello dei Bronzi )
P.L. 508 ( two 76mm L/50 at Mount Crumidi – Kromydi - )
P.L. 250 ( three 76mm L/40 at Cape Cazzuni – Katsouni - )
P.L. 432 ( three 76mm L/40 at La Madonna )
P.L. 306 ( two 76mm L/40 at Mount Vigla )
P.L. 763 Alinda ( two 76mm L/40 at Alinda )
P.L. 763 Gurna ( two 76mm L/40 at Gurna – Gourna - )
Leros AA Batteries
P.L. 113 ( four 76mm L/40 at Mount Zuncona – Tsikounas - )
P.L. 248 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Palma – Vagias - )
P.L. 262 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Scumbarda )
Leros Naval DP Batteries
P.L. 306 ( six 102mm L/35 at Mount Vigla )
P.L. 211 ( four 102mm L/35 at Mount Rahi )
P.L. 227 ( four 102mm L/35 at Cape Cazzuni – Katsouni - )
P.L. 127 ( six 90mm L/53 at Mount Meraviglia – Merovigli - )
P.L. 281 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Diaporoi )
P.L. 906 ( four 76mm L/40 at Mount Mouplogourna )
P.L. 989 ( four 76mm L/40 at Cape Timari – Thimari - )
P.L. 888 ( four 76mm L/40 at Blefuti )
P.L. 749 ( four 76mm L/40 at Arcangelo Island – Arhangelos - )
But What units were actually stationed there manning those guns and the Naval base, and the Sea Plane base, the Support Personnel …
The Hope is that someplace there is a list of similar Support troops and the organization, not just for base forces, but for RR Support units and all manner of support unit
For Example this is know:
Leros Naval Batteries:
Ducci ( four 152mm L/50 & one 120mm L/45 at Mount Cazzuni – Katsouni )
San Giorgio ( three 152mm L/40 & one 102mm L/35 at Mount Scumbarda )
Ciano ( four 152mm L/40 at Mount Clidi – Kleidi - )
Farinata ( four 120mm L/45 at Mount Marcello – Markelos - )
Lago ( four 120mm L/45 at Mount Appetici – Apetiki - )
P.L. 388 ( four 102mm L/35 at Mount Diaporoi )
P.L. 899 ( four 76mm L/50 at Cape Asfougaros )
P.L. 690 ( two 76mm L/50 at Santa Marina, Castello dei Bronzi )
P.L. 508 ( two 76mm L/50 at Mount Crumidi – Kromydi - )
P.L. 250 ( three 76mm L/40 at Cape Cazzuni – Katsouni - )
P.L. 432 ( three 76mm L/40 at La Madonna )
P.L. 306 ( two 76mm L/40 at Mount Vigla )
P.L. 763 Alinda ( two 76mm L/40 at Alinda )
P.L. 763 Gurna ( two 76mm L/40 at Gurna – Gourna - )
Leros AA Batteries
P.L. 113 ( four 76mm L/40 at Mount Zuncona – Tsikounas - )
P.L. 248 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Palma – Vagias - )
P.L. 262 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Scumbarda )
Leros Naval DP Batteries
P.L. 306 ( six 102mm L/35 at Mount Vigla )
P.L. 211 ( four 102mm L/35 at Mount Rahi )
P.L. 227 ( four 102mm L/35 at Cape Cazzuni – Katsouni - )
P.L. 127 ( six 90mm L/53 at Mount Meraviglia – Merovigli - )
P.L. 281 ( six 76mm L/40 at Mount Diaporoi )
P.L. 906 ( four 76mm L/40 at Mount Mouplogourna )
P.L. 989 ( four 76mm L/40 at Cape Timari – Thimari - )
P.L. 888 ( four 76mm L/40 at Blefuti )
P.L. 749 ( four 76mm L/40 at Arcangelo Island – Arhangelos - )
But What units were actually stationed there manning those guns and the Naval base, and the Sea Plane base, the Support Personnel …
The Hope is that someplace there is a list of similar Support troops and the organization, not just for base forces, but for RR Support units and all manner of support unit
Re: Italian Suport Units
You will not get specifics... you had a regiment of genio ferroviario that worked as a pool/depot/training sending people everywhere where it was needed, There was also milizia ferroviaria but this was more of police i think.
Most people in naval bases were Milmart, milizia artileria maritima , but keep in mind things in Italy were fluid and army guns with army crew could be employed also for coastal defense.
Most people in naval bases were Milmart, milizia artileria maritima , but keep in mind things in Italy were fluid and army guns with army crew could be employed also for coastal defense.
Re: Italian Suport Units
So they weren’t actually proper units the way that you would normally think of them, but loosely organised and created to fit a specific need?Dili wrote: ↑24 Aug 2019, 00:59You will not get specifics... you had a regiment of genio ferroviario that worked as a pool/depot/training sending people everywhere where it was needed, There was also milizia ferroviaria but this was more of police i think.
Most people in naval bases were Milmart, milizia artileria maritima , but keep in mind things in Italy were fluid and army guns with army crew could be employed also for coastal defense.
Re: Italian Suport Units
I know a company was sent to repair the rail bridge of Corinth channel, but i don't have details. In Libia there weren't any relevant railways. Only in Egypt the Marsa Matruh-Alexandria-Cairo etc.
Re: Italian Suport Units
How about....
1 - IV Battaglione Lavoratori. & V - VII Battaglione Lavoratori?
They were present in North Africa from 1941.
1 - IV Battaglione Lavoratori. & V - VII Battaglione Lavoratori?
They were present in North Africa from 1941.
Re: Italian Suport Units
Pleasure!
- Loïc
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Re: Genio Ferrovieri della Libia
hello
instead of battalions I think that both 4th and 5th in North Africa are Operating lines Sections 4a 5a Sezione Esercizio linee, and the 7th Labour Battalion
the Italian Army Railways Engineers Regiment Reggimento Genio Ferrovieri mobilised for the War 13 Railways Battalions di lavoro (labour) including one metal pontoon company by battalion di Lavorati (workers), there were also 3 Groups of 5 Sections each esercizio delle linee (operating lines)
http://www.arsmilitaris.org/pubblicazio ... ovieri.pdf
page 25 --> # 4.4.5 Northern African Front
in august 1942 came the 6a Compagnia, 5a Sezione Esercizio and elements of the 4a Sezione Esercizio more 7° Battaglione ferrovieri staff
in september the 3°Raggruppamento Ferrovieri covering units already there, one Compagnia esercizio ferrovieri, one militarized civilians workers company as railways guards, a corps of 150 pontoneers, 2 autonomous infantry companies (101a 102a) for railways security
The Railways corps were used to build the Bir Suesi-Tobruk line
in the line operating sector the limited power of oil-fired locomotives, made necessary to constitute convoys with a limited number of wagons. Far greater difficulties were represented by the attacks of the English (sic), who forced to insert in the convoys, wagons equipped with anti-aircraft machine guns. Another pitfall was represented by the actions of the English (sic) "commandos" coming from both the sea and the desert. After El Alamein, some units backed home while the 7th Battalion was engaged in the destruction of facilities and rolling stock, in sabotage and various interruptions, as well as in the construction of defensive works and finally, directly, in combat
with some pictures more, pages 332-338
https://fr.calameo.com/read/005182420c0b515c45cf3
instead of battalions I think that both 4th and 5th in North Africa are Operating lines Sections 4a 5a Sezione Esercizio linee, and the 7th Labour Battalion
the Italian Army Railways Engineers Regiment Reggimento Genio Ferrovieri mobilised for the War 13 Railways Battalions di lavoro (labour) including one metal pontoon company by battalion di Lavorati (workers), there were also 3 Groups of 5 Sections each esercizio delle linee (operating lines)
http://www.arsmilitaris.org/pubblicazio ... ovieri.pdf
page 25 --> # 4.4.5 Northern African Front
in august 1942 came the 6a Compagnia, 5a Sezione Esercizio and elements of the 4a Sezione Esercizio more 7° Battaglione ferrovieri staff
in september the 3°Raggruppamento Ferrovieri covering units already there, one Compagnia esercizio ferrovieri, one militarized civilians workers company as railways guards, a corps of 150 pontoneers, 2 autonomous infantry companies (101a 102a) for railways security
The Railways corps were used to build the Bir Suesi-Tobruk line
in the line operating sector the limited power of oil-fired locomotives, made necessary to constitute convoys with a limited number of wagons. Far greater difficulties were represented by the attacks of the English (sic), who forced to insert in the convoys, wagons equipped with anti-aircraft machine guns. Another pitfall was represented by the actions of the English (sic) "commandos" coming from both the sea and the desert. After El Alamein, some units backed home while the 7th Battalion was engaged in the destruction of facilities and rolling stock, in sabotage and various interruptions, as well as in the construction of defensive works and finally, directly, in combat
with some pictures more, pages 332-338
https://fr.calameo.com/read/005182420c0b515c45cf3
Re: Italian Suport Units
! Thanks Again, Great References
Re: Italian Suport Units
In Italian Army support role was competence of "Genio"( engineers) Corp with his severan branch.
The same for Navy ( Genio Navale). Air Force had "Genio Aeronautico" and the " Service" Corp.
The R.A. had also a specian unit , Btg"Loreto" for preparation and riadaptament of airfield in enemy territory.
(The Loreto name derivated from the town of Loreto where is believed that is located the original house of the Virgin Maria , transported here by Angels).
The same for Navy ( Genio Navale). Air Force had "Genio Aeronautico" and the " Service" Corp.
The R.A. had also a specian unit , Btg"Loreto" for preparation and riadaptament of airfield in enemy territory.
(The Loreto name derivated from the town of Loreto where is believed that is located the original house of the Virgin Maria , transported here by Angels).
- Loïc
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- Location: Riom Auvergne & Bourbonnais France
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Re: Italian Support Units
Actually for Italian Army "support" units, I imagined all but Engineers Arm
-Transport & Material units
-Medical, Veterinary & SMOM Ordine di Malta
-Commissariat (Quartermaster)
-Chemical Warfare Service units
others...
-Transport & Material units
-Medical, Veterinary & SMOM Ordine di Malta
-Commissariat (Quartermaster)
-Chemical Warfare Service units
others...
Re: Italian Suport Units
The picture in the OP is almost certainly from North Africa?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Libya_Railways
The enemy had superiority in numbers, his tanks were more heavily armoured, they had larger calibre guns with nearly twice the effective range of ours, and their telescopes were superior. 5 RTR 19/11/41
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
The CRUSADER Project - The Winter Battle 1941/42
Re: Italian Support Units
Italian supply/transport/service units ?
Any clue on these there numbers and Organization ?
Names of...
Re: Italian Suport Units
Yep and if i am not mistaken is probably the British rail line in Western Egypt.Urmel wrote: ↑11 Sep 2019, 16:32The picture in the OP is almost certainly from North Africa?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Libya_Railways