Mussolini's museum pieces

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
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Marcus
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Mussolini's museum pieces

#1

Post by Marcus » 13 Mar 2002, 20:51

"Rome's newest museum has opened its doors for the first time, and the most controversial exhibit is the ornate bed used by the Italian Fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini.
The museum is just one of the houses in Mussolini's private compound and now renovation work is starting on his vast private villa next door.
Even after half a century of neglect Villa Torlonia remains a neo-classical masterpiece.
For 18 years, this leafy paradise sheltered one of the twentieth century's most brutal leaders.
The authorities in Rome say British and American troops wrecked the villa's interior when they captured the city in WWII.
...
Italy's foremost expert on fascism, Professor Emilio Gentili, deplores moves to humanise a ruthless leader whom he calls a monster.
...
One of his sons, Romano Mussolini, retraces the carefree years he spent there as a child under the watchful eye of a dictator who stopped at nothing.
...
But for other Italians, it's a history project that has woken ghosts they would prefer to forget."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/ ... 870634.stm

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Angelo
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Mussolini's Museum Pieces

#2

Post by Angelo » 13 Mar 2002, 23:42

First, let me thank you Marcus for the news. I knew something was in the air as I read some months ago they were busy with restorations on the Villa, but no date was given as to when it would have been reopened.

So, here we are with another piece of history coming alive again after some 57 years from the end of it all. Considering the fact that most of the roman palaces were at a time or another the residence of some big shot of the moment, I'm not surprised they decided to put a plate on Villa Torlonia's gates and give it the status of a museum. As a matter of fact, a large area of the Villa had already been opened to the public back in 1977 with no particular reference to its being the Mussolini's home for some 14 years, from 1929 to 1943 when they had to leave it following the well known overthrowing of the Duce by the group led by his son in law, the Count Ciano, and other members of the then Gran Consiglio del Fascismo.

If you don't mind I'll spend a few words on the Villa itself.
The Villa, properly, is just a component of a set of other villas and housings tracing back to the end of the 16th. century. Its original nucleus was built in the years between 1563 and 1566 on order of Annibal Caro (famous poet and translator of greek classics) who got the land from the monks of the nearby Abbazia (abbey) di Grottaferrata, very close to that corner of heaven that is Frascati (that's where Fieldmarshall Kesselring placed his HQ in those fatal days of 1943).
The Villa (referred to by Caro as "Caravilla", i.e. "dear villa" to emphasize his love for his newly built home; he was an extremely gentle soul full of feeling anf not just erudition) passed, some years after his death, on to the Cenci family who, on their turn, sell it to Cardinal Tolomeo Galli who was the Secretary of State of Pope Gregorio XIII. Incidentally, we should remember such a great Pope for being an enthusiast and genuine supporter of science, a very fond conoisseur of both ancient and contemporary letters, founder of one of the most renowned universities, the "Gregoriana" which, originally, was meant to be the higher college for Jesuits and finally, the compiler of the calendar we're still using nowadays which was named "gregorian" just after his name.
At that point, Cardinal Galli, decides to enlarge the property buying some neighboring areas and building, around the original "Caravilla", a new villa which should definitely be considered the developing core of what will come to be known later as Villa Torlonia.
To cut things short a bit, let's say that, after passing through a number of noble families (Ludovisi, Colonna, Conti, Sforza-Cesarini) and a few other Popes, icluding Paolo V (1607 approx.) and Gregorio XV (1621 approx.), the Villa, renovated, embellished and remarkably enlarged becomes the property of the Torlonia's in 1841 and was still theirs during the years when it was the home of the Duce and his family who paid a symbolic rent fee of 1 Lira/month.
It is now owned, I guess, by the "Comune di Roma" (Rome Townhall administration).
One last thing, its uncomparable beauty is certainly magnified by the gardens, fountains and archeological underground and it's no wonder the Italians were more than happy when they could enjoy its landscape again.

The reason why I gave such a synthetical description of the Villa's birth and whereabouts is to stress that, apart the Mussolini chapter, the architectural complex including it as well as the one laying around it are such a wonder that deserved the Museum status regardless of any more or less postumous political implications.

Let's go now to the point where the journalist says
For 18 years, this leafy paradise sheltered one of the twentieth century's most brutal leaders.
This is unconceivable! I'm no fascist and everybody here knows it, but to portray Mussolini as one of the most brutal leaders is simply denoting a serious loss of discernment. If brutality is intended as the mere reduction of freedom, then I agree he could be libelled as such, but if brutality is meant as a rude, rough and harming way to treat the people, then I must say that adjective is surely out of place. In 22 years of his dictatorship, the actual cases where brutality did show up are confined to a handful of tragic examples, all belonging to the 1943-1945 period of his ruling. And it should be noted that even in these cases, the actions had been imposed by the S.S. Authorities present in the areas in question whom the Fascist Militia or troops were, if not always formally, "de facto" subordinated.
Going along the line, I wonder how Professor Gentili can call Mussolini a "monster" when not even 1 of the atrocities which would justify such a connotation can be ascribed to him, directly, as the leader of the Nation in those years or to his military and political organizations. Fascists, whether pleasant or not, never organized mass killings of any kind, never set up any extermination camp and though they cooperated with the Germans, their refusal to take part in any kind of operation aimed at the capture of Jews and/or other minorities, for reasons other than strictly connected to military operations in progress, was such that we have documents attesting how the Germans felt totally unhappy and always suspicious about the willingness of their Italian allies to back them up in such activities.
I'm not saying that in Lybia, Ethyopia, Somalia, Albania and Greece, our troops never committed facts that could and must be labelled as criminal and worth punishment, but I'm clearly stating that this was more or less on the same rate and level which could be found in any occupation army led by politicians and commanders whom nobody would dare call them as monsters.
I certainly do agree, though, that given the times we are now living, the last thing Italians would like to remember or reenact is the so-called "ventennio" (twenty year spell).
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Oswald Mosley
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Mussolini Museum

#3

Post by Oswald Mosley » 14 Mar 2002, 02:18

:D Very interesting! I must make sure I visit the museum next time I go to Rome.

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ziggy wiseman
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San Benito

#4

Post by ziggy wiseman » 14 Mar 2002, 17:24

Talking of Mussolini,i just found a site where you can see a "fresque"of the Duce right in the chorus of a catholic church,The site is in french,but i'm pretty sure this church is located in Canada.(i talked about this few months ago)
Pretty strange to see such devotion in year 2002!
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/nincheri/fr ... edame.html

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MrFurious
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Italian Fascism

#5

Post by MrFurious » 14 Mar 2002, 17:44

What really gets me about Italian Fascism is that it ever happened at all! I mean, Italians are too culturally cynical to accept a dictatorship. I know that because I'm german-italian, ethnically. Being german-italian usually means that part of me wants to get drunk and the other doesn't want to pay for it. :D

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JeffreyF
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#6

Post by JeffreyF » 14 Mar 2002, 23:49

Well look at your choices back then as it appeared to some. Be a communist or be a fascist. Not that I would want to support either either system but most definitely not the communists! That is just my three second view on it, I realize it was much more complicated.

I think it is good they open up things like this if it is done in good taste. I remember once I watched an A&E biography on Mussolini with my mother. My mother commented that was more than she had ever seen on him in Italy and I believe the first time she had seen him when he had not shaved his head. Not that she had ever researched Mussolini but it is swept under the rug in our family. Fascists were bad and communists are still plain evil. :wink:

Of course I would like to see more about the plight of the civilians too. I grew up on the stories of my Grandmother taking the train to the country to get food for the family in Milan and such.

Adler
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Mussolini Museum

#7

Post by Adler » 27 Mar 2002, 01:04

With El Duce's ornate bed now on display, the descendents of Clara Petacci now have an icon to cluster around. :roll:

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MadJim
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oohhh

#8

Post by MadJim » 12 Apr 2002, 05:13

That Eagle, was a low blow! :P

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Olivier Palardy
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San Benito

#9

Post by Olivier Palardy » 14 Apr 2002, 09:34

Ziggy,

You are completly right. This church is located in Canada, more precisly in Montréal on Dante street. I visited it personally one month ago. The architecture of the church is very different from the other churches in Montréal. It is pretty impressive and built with red bricks. There is a war monument in front of the building but everything is written in italian so I can't understand.

Regards

Olivier Palardy

Oswald Mosley
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Italian Fascism

#10

Post by Oswald Mosley » 16 Apr 2002, 23:07

Mr Furious,

Yes, Italians are cynical as a nation. They are basically a nation of egoists, not idealists. I am also surprised that Italy was ever united, but then that was largely the job of Garibaldi, a very unusual Italian; Count Cavour never wanted the South in his Kingdom.

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MVSNConsolegenerale
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Post subject: Italian Fascism

#11

Post by MVSNConsolegenerale » 23 Apr 2002, 07:57

Hmmm, Italian Fascism. First of all, Fascism is Italian. Despite what other people say, the NAZI party was fascist-like, but not fascist.

What is Fascism? It is something that is very hard to define - as there are so many different definitions. Firstly, Fascism is not by nature a totalitarian regime, in fact, throughout most of its history in Italy people were allowed to vote right up until 1938 (after Mussolini fell under the spell of the Austrian Corporal). Secondly, it was termed in the time as the "new third way" - where rampant capitalism and socialism could walk a fine line (sound familar?); where the line could be drawn between selfish egoism of the individual and monotonous collectivism.

I'm just a bit irritated at how people rewrite history. The world was in awe at Italian Fascism. No other industrialized country was able to brave the waters of the international economic collapse of the thirties. Some credit should be due to these "egoists", their democracy had uterly failed them (Yes, democracy can fail some times!). They were rewarded for joining the war on the allied side during a time when the Germans were almost assured a victory by absolutely nothing. They turned to an alternative form of government which served them encredibly well for almost ten years. For those ten years, it was the average opinion of the intellectual circles in France, England, Canada, United States - that Fascism was the new form of government for the twentieth century. Complete control of markets by the people led to an economic disaster that Mussolini and his advisers found an answer to. Infact, Capitalistic Nations of the world adopted many of his policies right after the war - namely, corporatism!

Fascism failed in the end, bitterly...but lets give some credit where credit is due instead of burying our heads in the sand. Even Churchill could not help but respect Mussolini, who so hated the German NAZI Regime and Adolf Hitler.

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Egoists?

#12

Post by VHaist » 24 Apr 2002, 01:21

Oswald Mosley,
I am, believe or not, ethnically half Italian half German from Brazil. The Germans and the Italians established themselves in the same region here (generally to be farmers and to establish new cities). I would like to say that I disagree about what you said (Italy as a nation of egoists). Unless the Italian mind changed a lot in the last 100 years, among them the family solidarity is unbeatable. Not coincidentally, the Italian divorce and illegitimacy rates are a sixth of the British nowadays. I think a good way of analysing a people is to examine its family institution.

MVSNConsolegenerale,
I don't think fascism failed... see the US president (elected by fraud and strong-arm tactics). He's fascism in person.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

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MVSNConsolegenerale
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RE: The failure of Fascism

#13

Post by MVSNConsolegenerale » 24 Apr 2002, 03:43

Yes...The economic component of Fascism has not failed "Corporatism" - and there are good and bad things about that. However, the Political aspect did definately fail.

Like Socialism as a political doctrine, verses Communism as an economic doctrine.

Or like Democracy as a political doctrine, verses capitalism as an economic doctrine. Get my point?

VHaist
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Fascism today

#14

Post by VHaist » 24 Apr 2002, 07:21

I personally think the US president is symbolic of the major reasons the United States should be feared and despised: apathy (Americans are unbelievably apathetic, a condition that leads to ignorance, stupidity, laziness and cowardice. Thus, United States citizens are no longer in control of their democracy); extreme nationalism; religious fanatism; isolationism; media monopolization and auto-censorship; lack of environmental movement; large corporations divorced from ethics (they effectively control the U.S. government); espionage on their own citizens and finally militarism. You see, many of these characteristic corresponds to a fascist state, not only corporatism. I'm not sure if they are a democracy, since the most voted person wasn't ellected. Some judges decided who should be the president. Even thought It doesn't matters at all... I sincerely can't see any difference between George W Bush, Al Gore, Pat Buchanan, etc. Democracy, socialism, fascism... are only names.

But everything I said is off-topic, so I'm sorry if this thread get closed. Marcus, if you read this, please note the capital of my country is Brasilia, not Brassila, as I saw written in the Timezone menu.

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Turiddu
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#15

Post by Turiddu » 25 Apr 2002, 07:44

First of all I would like to thank the moderators of this excellent site!

I'm interested in Italian Fascism but I'm one of those who believes fascism was Italian in origin but now, the ideas have no frontiers...

I do agree with those who are able to distinguish between Nationalsocialism and fascism.

Bush a fascist???? that ain't funny... with all my respect for the American people... he is just a fool that use the word 'fascist' in his speeches againts terrorism and so on... and a lot of people believe people like him...
so it is commun, people arounf the world just take the negative aspects of a whole thing.

If someone in the States that wants to send home the Mexicans, he's not a fascist, he's the right to decide and vote their own immigration policies.

The term 'fascist' has been an 'instrumentum regni' for both communist and pseudodemocratic states...

I'm writing a thesis about Italian Foreign policy so any information about treaties and other diplomatic papers will be useful.

Congratulations all you people!

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