Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

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DrG
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by DrG » 06 Aug 2019 17:20

Lupodimare89, if you wish to read a good book, perfect for the vacations, inexpensive and pretty enjoyable (at least by people interested in military history...), you will find the answer to your questions in Hough Trevor-Roper's old but still good "Gli ultimi giorni di Hitler".

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 06 Aug 2019 18:09

lupodimare89 wrote:
06 Aug 2019 17:16
DavidFrankenberg wrote:
06 Aug 2019 17:04
lupodimare89 wrote:
06 Aug 2019 10:51
PS: one thing i was curious about (and also my father) it's knowing if Hitler knew (and when) about the exact fate of Mussolini (including the hanging in Piazzale Loreto) and how he reacted at the news.
Yes, Hitler knew exactly what happened.
That's why he decided to suicide and ordered that his body has to be burnt to ashes after his death. It was done so by his SS bodyguards.
Ok, well... this was one guess of mine, but i was more curious if exists a description of one of the survivors of the bunker on how/when it happened (or some transcription of his reaction to the news).
I think from a series of that the suicide plan was already scheduled (as probably the burning of the body)? news of the hanging episode could have only strenghtened his decision at that point.
You can read the testimony of Rochus Misch for example. Many witnesses talked about theses prescriptions told by Hitler concerning the fate of his dead body.
Rochus Misch J'étais garde du corps d'Hitler 1940–1945 (I was Hitler's bodyguard 1940–1945), with Nicolas Bourcier. Le Cherche Midi 2006

DavidFrankenberg
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by DavidFrankenberg » 07 Aug 2019 11:13

Indeed, Hitler decided to die the way he died BEFORE Mussolini's death.
Mussolini's fate just confirmed his idea to be cremated after his death.

Afterthebattle
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by Afterthebattle » 12 Sep 2020 14:23

Does anyone has the address of the old Customs house in Germasino where Mussolini was held?
I am going to Italy next week.

VanillaNuns
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by VanillaNuns » 12 Sep 2020 18:34

Afterthebattle wrote:
12 Sep 2020 14:23
Does anyone has the address of the old Customs house in Germasino where Mussolini was held?
I am going to Italy next week.
I assume you are planning on visiting the war museum at Donga Town Hall where Mussolini was taken to and formally arrested? It's a must...

No doubt, they will be able to assist you with this enquiry. The current health situation is causing much upheavel. Visitors are strongly advised to book in advance in order to be guaranteed entrance on the day and visits to the museum are now limited to just 50 minutes.


Palazzo Manzi, Piazza Paracchini, 6 22014 Dongo (Como) Italy

Telephone: +39 0344 81333 / +39 0344 82572

Email: info@museofineguerradongo.it

Good luck 👍

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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by VanillaNuns » 12 Sep 2020 18:44

DavidFrankenberg wrote:
06 Aug 2019 17:04
lupodimare89 wrote:
06 Aug 2019 10:51
PS: one thing i was curious about (and also my father) it's knowing if Hitler knew (and when) about the exact fate of Mussolini (including the hanging in Piazzale Loreto) and how he reacted at the news.
Yes, Hitler knew exactly what happened.
That's why he decided to suicide and ordered that his body has to be burnt to ashes after his death. It was done so by his SS bodyguards.
Indeed, Rochus Misch said the news of Mussolini's death and events at Piazzale Loreto was one of the very last messages received from outwith Berlin as the balloon above the Fuhrerbunker carrying the radio telephone aerial was shot down for the last time.

Afterthebattle
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by Afterthebattle » 12 Sep 2020 21:51

VanillaNuns wrote:
12 Sep 2020 18:34
Afterthebattle wrote:
12 Sep 2020 14:23
Does anyone has the address of the old Customs house in Germasino where Mussolini was held?
I am going to Italy next week.
I assume you are planning on visiting the war museum at Donga Town Hall where Mussolini was taken to and formally arrested? It's a must...

No doubt, they will be able to assist you with this enquiry. The current health situation is causing much upheavel. Visitors are strongly advised to book in advance in order to be guaranteed entrance on the day and visits to the museum are now limited to just 50 minutes.


Palazzo Manzi, Piazza Paracchini, 6 22014 Dongo (Como) Italy

Telephone: +39 0344 81333 / +39 0344 82572

Email: info@museofineguerradongo.it

Good luck 👍
Yes indeed iam going to the museum and booked a slot. They have placed 10 signposts around Como lake so you can retrace the last days of Mussolini. Although the museum website gives the villages where the signposts are placed, nowhere is given the exact location (like the one in Germasino). I called the museum by phone to confirm my visit slot. They spoke English but just to answer on my reservation. When I started about the signposts it was too difficult for them in English. Ha ha.
I will ask when I am there.
Anyway, the highlight will be a picture of the gate of Villa Bellmonte. Iam going there specially for that picture
Thanks

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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by Cantankerous » 06 Jan 2021 17:30

Why did anti-fascist partisans choose to hang Mussolini's body and that of his mistress from a barbecue skewer rather than bury him in an unmarked grave? It's clear that hanging a dictator from a barbecue skewer or other platform is pretty gruesome (Gaddafi had his body displayed as a war trophy after he was killed by Libyan rebels, but that's another story), but were the partisans worried that an unmarked grave for Mussolini and his mistress would become a shrine for neo-fascists and Hitler supporters?

Joda
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by Joda » 06 Jan 2021 18:58

Cantankerous wrote:
06 Jan 2021 17:30
Why did anti-fascist partisans choose to hang Mussolini's body and that of his mistress from a barbecue skewer rather than bury him in an unmarked grave? It's clear that hanging a dictator from a barbecue skewer or other platform is pretty gruesome (Gaddafi had his body displayed as a war trophy after he was killed by Libyan rebels, but that's another story), but were the partisans worried that an unmarked grave for Mussolini and his mistress would become a shrine for neo-fascists and Hitler supporters?
Just because of reprisal due to deep hate during a civil war like the one at that moment. About a year before, in 1944, some german soldiers in Milan where shot by partisans and, for reprisal, they were found, shot and exposed in Piazzale Loreto.
That's why they decide to do the same.

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DrG
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by DrG » 09 Jan 2021 16:32

Cantankerous wrote:
06 Jan 2021 17:30
Why did anti-fascist partisans choose to hang Mussolini's body and that of his mistress from a barbecue skewer rather than bury him in an unmarked grave? It's clear that hanging a dictator from a barbecue skewer or other platform is pretty gruesome (Gaddafi had his body displayed as a war trophy after he was killed by Libyan rebels, but that's another story), but were the partisans worried that an unmarked grave for Mussolini and his mistress would become a shrine for neo-fascists and Hitler supporters?
The corpses of Mussolini, Clara Petacci, and other people were hanged upside down to the trellis of a gas station in Piazzale Loreto in Milan in order to make them more clearly visible from distance, because the place was filled of people and only the first couple of lines could actually see them. They had been exposed earlier in the morning of 29 April 1945 on the ground of Piazzale Loreto ostensibly because on 10 August 1944 15 partisans had been executed in the same place as a reprisal for a bomb exploded on 8 Aug. 1944, which killed some Italian civilians. Given that no Germans were killed in this explosion, while the reprisal had been ordered by the Germans it was executed by the men of the Autonomous Legion "Ettore Muti" of the Italian Social Republic. The corpses of the 15 men were left on the place as a warning during the morning and part of the afternoon of 10 Aug., causing a strong resentment in the population due to the gruesome show. The prefect Piero Parini, with Mussolini's consent (who was informed only after the fact and complained with the Germans for the execution), then ordered their removal. Anyway, as usual, the resistance strumentalized the reprisal in order to intesify their strategy of terror. As written by the antifascist historian and former partizan Claudio Pavon in his "A Civil War. A History of the Italian Resistance":
Above all it was said that the reprisals bespoke not so much the force as the weakness of the enemy, against whom ultimately they could only rebound. ‘Terror is nothing more than the cry of the savage who in his heart of hearts is weak and frightened’, says the document just cited. The Gappist Giovanni Pesce wrote of the massacre perpetrated by the Fascists in Piazzale Loreto on 10 August 1944: ‘The enemy realises that the weapon of terror is backfiring on him. We must insist.’ And on the occasion of attacks organised by him:
‘Reprisals? – he replies to a Gappist who has broached the question with him – Yes, and more and more ferocious. That’s why we must constantly keep our hands at [the enemy’s] throat … Not let ourselves be intimidated by the reprisals. It’s the only way to keep our forces effective and to let the enemy know how useless his ferocity is.’
A Garibaldi Command repeated ‘the necessity to attack the enemy and inflict losses on him without worrying about reprisals on the population, reprisals which ultimately always rebound on the enemy himself’.
Despite the fact that, after this reprisal, as a counter-reprisal the partisans killed 45 Italian and German prisoners in their hands, the Fascist reprisal of 10 Aug. 1944 was still used as justification for the "Mexican butchery" (in Ferruccio Parri's words) of 29 April 1945.

Berto
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Re: Mussolini's capture by partisans in 1945 question

Post by Berto » 09 Jan 2021 21:34

The partisans were right in continuing their attacks, despite the cowardly and beastly reprisals of the nazis and their fascist servants.

And there was no reason to justify the mistreatment of Musso's body. When you agree to serve as puppet for murderous foreigners who oppress your own people, consequences are to be expected. Wheter Ferruccio liked that or not.

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