Italian uniforms and equipment

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
Flakwalker
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Italian uniforms and equipment

Post by Flakwalker » 10 Sep 2004 03:50

Hello

There is any good site with info on Italian uniforms and equipment?, like info on the 4 models of Beretta 38A, Beretta 38/42 /43 /44, (aswell other guns).

Regards,

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Sewer King
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Post by Sewer King » 10 Sep 2004 04:59

I for one cannot think of a website, but can recommend the following book:

Trye, Rex. Mussolini's Soldiers. Airlife Publishing Ltd., 1995. 166 pages.

For its size expecially, this is a good comprehensive guide to Italian military uniforms and field equipment. There is some attention to Fascist uniform. Small arms and other infantry weapons are covered in their basics, but more detailed information on most any ordnance can be found elsewhere. So the main value in this book is its coverage of a less-written-about field. There are also 23 pages of fine color photographs based on private collections known to the author.

Here is the table of contents:

Chapter 1 -- The Citizen Soldier

The rise of Mussolini; the Citizen Soldier; Conscripts; Semi-combat elements; Conscripts' training; Warrant officer and NCO training; Officers and their training; System of promotion for officers; Rations; Burials and graves.

Chapter 2 -- Army Organization

Infantry divisions; Mobile (cavalry) divisions; Armored divisions; Motorized divisions; Paratroops; Field Artillery; Engineers; Chemical Troops; Frontier Guard; the Militias; Support Services.

Chapter 3 -- Combat Uniforms

Continental uniforms; Tropical uniforms; Specialized paratroop garments; Protective clothing.

Chapter 4 -- Headwear

Steel helmets; Crash Helmets; Continental peaked caps; Tropical peaked caps; Tropical side caps; Pith helmets; Alpine caps; Fez.

Chapter 5 -- Small Arms and Field Equipment

Artillery Service; Model 35, 20/65 AA gun (Breda); Model 37, 47/32 antitank gun; 65/17 infantry gun; Mortars; Hand grenades; Revolvers and Pistols; Rifles; Bayonets and combat daggers; Holsters and bandoliers; Knapsacks, rucksacks, and haversacks; Gas masks; Water bottles and mess tins; Shelter quarters; Miscellaneous officer accoutrements.

Chapter 6 -- Documents and Insignia

Evaluation book; Individual Record Book; MVSN identification booklet; Warrant Officer and officer pay book; Military pay; Ranks; Collar patches and devices; Gallantry medals; Order of precedence for wearing medals; Identity discs; Arm shields; Fascist Militia Zone shields; Militia shields.

Chapter 7 -- Armistice 1943, The Beginning of the End

Glossary

Bibliography

Index

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DrG
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Post by DrG » 10 Sep 2004 13:19

I don't know good sites in English about the infantry weapons of the Regio Esercito, but this one in Italian (I see you are Argentinian, with a bit of exercise and a dictionary you shouldn't have problems; this is a quick Italo-Spanish and Italo-English grammar: http://www.italiansrus.com/english/italian_lessons.htm) is really a great site about ex-military weapons: http://www.exordinanza.net/ (scroll down the menu on the left untill you reach the sub-title: "Gli italiani", that link and the following ones are about Italian weapons).
These sites are about the Carcano mod.91 rifle:
http://personal.stevens.edu/~gliberat/carcano
http://www.il91.it (Italian language).
This is about the Beretta mod.34:
http://www.berettaweb.com/armi/Beretta% ... 201935.htm.

About uniforms, there are these pages:
http://users.erols.com/pjvezz/italian/IT-REX.html some excerpts from Rex Trye's "Mussolini's Soldiers"
http://www.kotfsc.com/thunderbolt/italyranks.htm Italian ranks
http://www.secondeguerre.net/Uniformes/ ... htm#italie Italian uniforms (French language)
http://www.esercito.difesa.it/root/unif ... if_2gm.asp uniforms of the WW2 (Italian language)
http://web.tiscali.it/uniformirsi/ uniforms of the RSI (Italian language)
http://www.icsm.it/articoli/documenti/tabellegradi.zip comparative scheme of the ranks of the armed forces.

Flakwalker
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Post by Flakwalker » 10 Sep 2004 20:50

Thanks DrG, great info.

About weapons, I need photos showing the details of the Beretta submachine guns (I found very nice ones but not showing the top of them), Breda 30 and 37 machine guns.

Sewer King, what is the ISBN of that book?

Regards,

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DrG
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Post by DrG » 11 Sep 2004 01:15

Flakwalker wrote:what is the ISBN of that book?
Trye, Rex
“Mussolini’s Soldiers”
ISBN 1-85310-401-9
Airlife Publishinging, UK 1995

(see: http://users.erols.com/pjvezz/italian/IT-BOOK.html)

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Sewer King
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Post by Sewer King » 11 Sep 2004 04:13

Since you could answer the question faster than I was able :), are there any authoritative Italian books on the subject of uniforms and equipment?

My guess is that there are fewer Italian books about their wartime uniforms than there are German, British, and American ones about their respective militaria. But more than there are Japanese ones.

The one unfortunate thing about Trye's book is that the color photos are small, probably to keep down the book's size and cost.

Flakwalker
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Post by Flakwalker » 11 Sep 2004 20:29

Sewer King wrote:The one unfortunate thing about Trye's book is that the color photos are small, probably to keep down the book's size and cost.
At U$50 it still expensive.

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Sewer King
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Post by Sewer King » 12 Sep 2004 06:13

Agreed. That's why I waited to find Mussolini's Soldiers as a reviewer's copy for $15. Various second-hand bookstores get such copies and sell them for half-price. Sometimes more, sometimes less. There are up to a dozen such stores in my area.

Also the occasional sidewalk sale by someone for whom $50 is no great expenditure, and for whom simply disposing of the book means more than making more money back from it.

Finding books this way takes time and patience of course. But on a utility worker's pay I have lots of patience, and it pays off for books. Traveling on the job helps, but it's more important to follow what the second-hand dealers have since many of their books are nearly new, or can be restored to excellent shape.

The sidewalk sales are much more a matter of luck, but in the Washington DC area there are so many technocrats and military men who sell their books as I described.

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DrG
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Post by DrG » 13 Sep 2004 20:54

Sewer King wrote:Since you could answer the question faster than I was able :)
8) :)
are there any authoritative Italian books on the subject of uniforms and equipment?
I don't know English language books about those topics, I'm sorry. The only ones I know about Italian medals and militaria are listed here: Axis militaria reference books.

Flakwalker
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Post by Flakwalker » 15 Sep 2004 21:39

DrG, do you know a site or book explaining on great detail, like on the Carcano rifles sites you listed above, the subfusiles, submachine guns and machine guns?

Regards,

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DrG
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Post by DrG » 16 Sep 2004 14:52

Flakwalker wrote:DrG, do you know a site or book explaining on great detail, like on the Carcano rifles sites you listed above, the subfusiles, submachine guns and machine guns?
I'm sorry, but I don't know sites or books about infantry weapons that would provide great technical details about Italian infantry weapons.
You can find a few details about the MAB 38 here: http://www.berettaweb.com/Militari/MAB.htm and http://www.berettaweb.com/Militari/UK%20MAB.htm. You may try to ask the webmaster of this site (or of the sites already linked, like http://www.exordinanza.net) for more info: http://www.berettaweb.com/.

PS You may find a lot of very interesting links about Italian uniforms in this thread: http://www.comandosupremo.com/phpBB2/vi ... php?t=1391.

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landser32
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Post by landser32 » 22 Sep 2004 19:10

For general information on the Carcano rifle buy "The Carcano" written by Richard Hobbs. It is generally OOP but you can contact the author and purchase from him directly. They go for $25.00 a pop and is an assett for anyone wanting a reference for Italian rifles.


Landser32

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Kenshiro
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Post by Kenshiro » 24 Sep 2004 10:37

I have this link, sadly in Italian only, but maybe you can translate it with babylon or something like that.

http://www.il91.it/Sito/introduzione/In ... neSito.htm

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pz3j
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Post by pz3j » 04 Mar 2005 22:08

Hi all,

I've just joined and am looking forward to participating in the forum.

Here are two excellent internet sources for detailed info on WWII Italians.

http://www.comandosupremo.com/Messe.html

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quart ... itardi.htm

Does anyone know any good Italian WWII reenactment units? I'd love to join a good one.

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tigre
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Re: Italian uniforms and equipment

Post by tigre » 18 Jan 2021 10:43

Hello to all :D; bumping up..............................

Badges of arms and services of the units in Russia.

The badges have their origin in the feudal custom of distinguishing the livery or uniform of their squires with the typical color combinations of the lord who armed the unit. With the rise of the modern state, the multi-colored clothes of the not always reliable vassal troops are replaced by uniforms, increasingly standardized in shape and color, of the state army.

With the evolution of the style of the uniforms, these distinctions were gradually reduced. Ancient traditions, logically with variations, have been passed down over the centuries, giving rise to the following subdivision still in vogue, and also used in Russia:

• insignia, which belonged to the infantry regiments;
• flames, two-pointed for light infantry units and three-pointed for cavalry units;
• One-pointed flames, commonly called "pipes" because of their shape, for services such as Artillery, Engineers, Health;
• Fastening, in a more elaborate form, belonging to the Carabinieri and Grenadiers of Sardinia and the officers who serve in the General Staff.

In the Russian campaign, units wore the following insignia, which also included flames from the Black Shirt groups.

Source: Il Notiziario UNIRR. No. 141 October-December 2019.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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