Italian vehicles: Regio Esercito and R.S.I vehicles

[FRANCY RITTER]

ANSALDO FIAT AB/41 "LANCIERI DI MONTEBELLO" DAMAGED NEAR ROME .
09 SEPTEMBER 1943

[FRANCY RITTER]

SEMOVENTE 15/42 "CARRO COMANDO"

[FRANCY RITTER]

HI!!

Two pics of "Semovente da 47/32"
http://cavalleriaitaliana.ipupdater.com ... emezzi.htm

[Trommelfeuer]

Really interesting and good photos FRANCY !
But you know, sometimes we all need a little laugh, (please do not feel offended!) so here we go:

Sgt. Carmello’s Rattletrap Tank
( or the Day We Knew Italy Would Lose the War ) by Mark McLaughlin

Sgt. Carmello and his company of crack Carabinieri had been pinned down in the mountain pass for two very cold, uncomfortable and frightening hours. With his captain dead, casualties mounting and their advance stalled by heavy machine-gun fire from the heights above them, Sgt. Carmello and his only surviving officer, a young cadet lieutenant, called for armor support. The path to retreat was still clear, but none of the soldiers wanted to go back. After all, Carmello told his comrades, the men shooting at them were wearing skirts. Surely such men would not stand up to Italian tanks.

The sergeant was wrong. As he has often related in his halting yet clear English, that was the day he knew Italy would lose the war. It was also the day he vowed he would someday go to America, if only to get away from such idiots as Benito Mussolini.

In 1938 Carmello and many of the other men in his company of Sicilians had joined the Italian national police, the Carabinieri, to escape being drafted into the Italian army. Unfortunately for them, Italian dictator Benito Mussolini militarized the Carabinieri. Some of the Carabinieri were selected to serve as field police while others were formed into crack commando units. Mussolini, or “Il Duce,” as he preferred to be called, had personally reminded the Carabinieri of their regiment’s glorious history as an elite heavy cavalry regiment during the Risorgimento and Reunification of Italy in the previous century. The Carabinieri, Il Duce had proclaimed, had always been at the forefront of battle. Now they would lead the army in retracing the footsteps of the ancient legions to rebuild Mussolini’s New Roman Empire.

Those footsteps had taken some Carabinieri into Ethiopia, Libya and now Egypt, where they were confronting British General Archibald Wavell’s small Middle East Command. Carmello’s company had been spared the desert campaigns. They had been sent into newly conquered Albania, where they were selected to be the very tip of the spearhead of General Sebastiano Visconti-Prasca’s invasion of Greece in late October, 1940. The Carabinieri were to clear the difficult mountain roads along the Greco-Albanian frontier of “light resistance.” So far, however, like their brethren in the Alpini, Bersaglieri and other elite regiments in the advance guard of the Italian army, the Carabinieri had met with nothing but heavy fire.

Greek General Alexander Papagos had had many months to prepare for Visconti-Prasca. Papagos had built up a series of strong defensive lines in the difficult mountain terrain along the Greco-Albanian border. Although not as well-equipped as the modern, mechanized Italian army, Papagos had nearly as many men (150,000 vs 162,000 Italians), and he had positioned them well.

The men Papagos positioned in the mountain passes wore light olive green skirts, knee socks and shoes with little fluffy tassels. These were the “men in skirts” that Carmello say firing down on his Carabinieri. Little did he know at the time that these skirted warriors were the Evzones, the best shots in the Greek army. Tough, native mountain fighters with a tradition not unlike that of the Scottish Highlanders or the Italian Alpini, the Evzones manned the first line of defense: the mountain passes.

Carmello had lost too many men dueling with the Greek snipers. He ordered his soldiers to take cover in the rocks and cuts alongside the road. He saw no sense in exposing his men to danger when victory would be assured once the tanks arrived.

An hour later, he heard the telltale clankety-clank, rumble-rumble, whirr-whirr of bogie wheels as the Italian armor approached. His men began to cheer as the lead tank in the Italian armored column turned the corner and came up the road behind them.

The tank was alone.

One tank. That was all the Italian Tank Corps had sent. Carmello was a little downcast, but he did not let his men see his disappointment. At least it was not one of the little light machine-gun tanks (like the Carro Veloce 35). It was a real tank. A big tank. The best the Italians had made to date: an M.11/39 medium tank, with a real cannon -- a 37 mm gun.

The Evzones poured fire down on the M.11/39. Carmello’s Carabinieri jeered as machine-gun and rifle bullets bounced off its armor plates. The turret rotated to allow its 8 mm light machine-gun to spray the heights. The tank turned on its treads so that the main gun in the body of the tank could bear. It fired. A great “boom” echoed in the pass. Rocks flew in the air where the shell hit.

...and Sgt. Carmello remembers that there was also another strange banging sound, like a rattle, coming from the tank.

The tank fired again, and again and again. Each time the gun fired and recoiled, however, Carmello recalls, the rattling got louder. Then he notice that the armor was coming loose.

Italian tanks were not solid-cast. Plates of thin armor (30 mm in the case of the M.11/39) were bolted on to a metal frame. Unfortunately, the bolts tended to come loose, especially when the tanks were jostled going over rough terrain or when they were subjected to stress -- like the recoil of their gun. The tankers knew this; they carried special wrenches to tighten the bolts during rest stops.

Carmello tried to crawl to the tank, but the Evzones were still pouring fire down on his position. The tank fired again, and again and again....and then a plate fell off. The tankers were probably too excited or too busy choking from the dust and smoke to notice, and they fired again and again....and another plate fell off.

That is when Carmello heard another sound he has never forgotten: laughter. The Greeks stopped firing. They were laughing. As the dust began to clear Carmello could see why: there sat the tank, a half a dozen of its armor plates lying about, and the turret gunner sitting there, unprotected, for all to see.

The gunner kicked down and yelled to the driver to put the tank in gear and retreat -- but it would not go. One of the plates that had fallen off had become jammed in the bogie wheels. The turret gunner scrambled out of the skeleton turret and ran for the rocks. The driver and cannoneer jumped out and followed. As they cowered behind Carmello the sergeant looked around at the bewildered faces of his men ... and like a single man, they all stood up with their hands over their heads.

The rattletrap tank had been the last straw; it had convinced them all that Italy would never win this war.

The source is down, so I posted the whole story here...I guess it's just a fictional story...but a nice read anyway.

( photo-source )

[MaisAlto]

Two SPA 43, Libya

[Trommelfeuer]

Hmmm...I've tried to read the italian source about this vehicle, but babelfish's italian-english translation is quite bad...you know...something like this...

Every littorina was subdivided in three compartments battleships: one centers them, with one mitragliera Breda Mod. 35 from 20/65 for the air defense on talking nonsense candlestick gun carriage and one obtained circular emplacement in the roof or two 81 mm mortars milimeter Mod. 35 or two flamethrowers, and with four or six lateral emplacements for machine-guns Breda Mod. 38 cal. 8 equal milimeter placed for flank in single emplacement with snodo to bulb (bucket that represented the true and own room of combat and that it contained also the collapsible seats for the machine-gunners), and two lateral ones, where found place the seat of guide of the manovratore and the support of ciascuna turret of wagon M 13/40, equipped of antitank gun from 47/32.

:roll: ...........................................................................................................................

...so could you please give us some info about the armoured draisine Littorina blindata Libli Ansaldo ?
Like how many built, combat actions...?


( Six more photos here .

[dimi_labada]

Photo taken at the Museo Diego De Henriquez, Trieste

[Patrice]

Hello, some information about the "LIBLI", Littorina Blindata (Armored Rail Car) Aln 56.
Two variants.
The first model was delivered in September 1942.
Two drive compartments with above a turret of M13/40 armed with a Ansaldo 47/32 mm gun.
Betwen these two compatments the 'true' fighting compartment, with on each side 3 Breda 8mm machine gun, two 45 mm Brixia or 81 mod 35 mortars later remplaced on the second variant (1944)by a 20mm Breda Model 35 cannon and two Mod 40 Flame-throwers.
Lenght 13.6m powered by two 115 hp diesel, maximum speed 118Km/h (73 mph), 16 examples produced before the Armistice (September 1943), the first 8 models with an armour of 6mm and 11,5mm on the last eight LIBLI, crewed by 18 to 23 men.
Radio equipment a Marelli RF 2 CA radio.
Used in the Balkan from 1942 to 1944.
Two scan, the first from 'Les trains Blindés 1826~1989' of Paul Malmassari near the Editions Heimdal, and the other from 'Treni Armati-Treni Ospedale 1915-1945' of Guilio Benessi near Ermanno Albertelli Editore.
Regards Patrice.

[Rudi]

Really interesting and good photos FRANCY !
But you know, sometimes we all need a little laugh, (please do not feel offended!) so here we go:


( photo-source )

Trommelfeuer,

what you posted is very offensive and false.
First of all, the M11/39 was never used by the Italians in Greece, so the story hasn't any bit of reality.
Second, it doesn't exist any evidence of italian tanks loosing armour plates while firing and everybody having even only a little knowledge of tanks knows that this is impossible.... or maybe you and/or your "source" have some highly interesting first-hand-reports proving it? If yes, I would like to get a look at them, could you please post them?
Third, the fact that the tankers had to tighten the bolts during rest stops is ridicolous! How can you believe it?!?!?! Next time turn your brain on before posting such bulls...... please.
Fourth: AFAIK the name Carmello doesn't exist in Italian, I think the right name should be Carmelo (with one L).

The only aim of you and of the "writer" of this "story" is clearly to laugh about Italians, so your post sounds really like a Verarschung: do you understand this or is it a too difficult concept for your typical german brain?!?!?!?!?!

By the way: the link of your "source" doesn't work.

Rudi

[FRANCY RITTER]

Friends many thanks for pics....

[Trommelfeuer]

Thanks a lot @ dimi_labada for the photo and Patrice for the info and the pics of the armored draisine "LIBLI".

Rudi, when I posted the "Rattletrap Tank" story, I never meant it as an insult or to laugh about italians.
The link of the source does'nt work 'cause the site is down. If I may quote myself:

The source is down, so I posted the whole story here...I guess it's just a fictional story...but a nice read anyway.

Maybe I have a strange sense of humour, but this exaggeration of how bad the italian tanks were made me laugh when I imagined the scene...a deadly fight and then - the tank just falls apart...

The italian equipment im zwoten Weltkrieg was bad, although not as bad as described in the fictional story. I'm sorry, I didn't want to insult anyone.

The italians fought bravely in ww II, anyone who denies this should ask himself if he had engaged in combat with MK II cruisers or Matilda IIs in a L3 or in a M11/39...or with whatever was at hand! (...just one example...)

...At the war outbreak the Italian troopers were actually much more than the British (average 5:1 ratio). The real problem was, however, the quality of the respective armament , quality and quantity of supplies, and logistic organization (had one had it!).
In terms of armored vehicles, the Italians deployed 339 L3 light tanks, 8 (eight!) Fiat 3000, and 7 (seven!) armored cars. The British opposed 134 Light Mk VI tanks, 114 A10 (Mk II) heavy cruiser tanks, and 38 armoured cars (mainly Lanchester and Morris)...

"... the only British division currently deployed has 360 between armoured cars and medium tanks. There is no match for rifles and machine-guns, we will not, however, cease to fight and will make miracles; but had I been the British commander I'd already been in Tobruk..."

"Our assault tanks are old and, being armed with a sole machine-gun, they are already obsolete: the British machine-guns mounted on their armoured cars riddle them with bullets which fly across the thin armor of our tanks; we don't have armoured cars, the anti-tank guns are usually old and non effective, the new ones lack adequate ammunition. Thus the combat becomes a sort of meat-against-iron-fighting..." ( Maresciallo Italo Balbo, Governor of Libya, june 1940 )

source: Italian tanks at ww II.

In my opinion, the war in North Africa could have easily turned out the other way round if the italians had better equipment...
...you know, for example, (more) tanks like this: (.....photo source...)

[Trommelfeuer]

Two more photos, found here.

[Trommelfeuer]

Two more, found here.

[FRANCY RITTER]

Hello!!
Thanks Sven..
Autocannone Lancia 3 RO with 90 mm gun and semovente 47/32 ready for the boarding....
destination north Africa



http://cavalleriaitaliana.ipupdater.com ... li/020.htm
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Ital ... llery.html

[Trommelfeuer]

Hi!
Two photos of the bridgelayer L 35 Gettaponte "Passerella", found here.