Blackshirt Units with the 8th Army in Russia
- David C. Clarke
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Blackshirt Units with the 8th Army in Russia
Hi Guys! Some time ago my good friend Lupo gave me this list of Blackshirt units assigned to the 8th:
Blackshirt Group "23 March", including:
Battalion Group "Valle Scrivia"
V CCNN Battalion
XXXIV CCNN Battalion
XLI CCNN Battalion
Battalion Group "Leonessa"
XIV CCNN Battalion
XV CCNN Battalion
XXXVIII CCNN Weapon Battalion
Blackshirt Group "3 January", including:
Battalion Group "Tagliamento"
LXIII CCNN battalion
LXXIX CCNN battalion
LXXIX weapons battalion (Army)
Battalion Group "Montebello"
VI CCNN battalion
XXX CCNN battalion
XII CCNN battalion
Can anyone help flesh these formations out with names of commanders and sectors they fought in during the campaign of December 1942--January 1943? Any information would help, including organization, TO&Es, etc. Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
David
Blackshirt Group "23 March", including:
Battalion Group "Valle Scrivia"
V CCNN Battalion
XXXIV CCNN Battalion
XLI CCNN Battalion
Battalion Group "Leonessa"
XIV CCNN Battalion
XV CCNN Battalion
XXXVIII CCNN Weapon Battalion
Blackshirt Group "3 January", including:
Battalion Group "Tagliamento"
LXIII CCNN battalion
LXXIX CCNN battalion
LXXIX weapons battalion (Army)
Battalion Group "Montebello"
VI CCNN battalion
XXX CCNN battalion
XII CCNN battalion
Can anyone help flesh these formations out with names of commanders and sectors they fought in during the campaign of December 1942--January 1943? Any information would help, including organization, TO&Es, etc. Thanks in advance!
Best Regards,
David
David,
As of 10 December 1942, the Blackshirt formations were assigned as follows:
Italian II Corps
Raggruppamento CC.NN. “23 Marzo” (Luogotenente Generale Luigi Martinesi)
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Leonessa” (Console Graziano Sardu) – XIV and XV Battaglione CC.NN.; XXXVIII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Valle Scrivia” (Console Mario Bertoni) – V and XXXIV Battaglione CC.NN.; XLI Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
Italian XXXV Corps
Raggruppamento CC.NN. “3 Gennaio” (Luogotenente Generale Filippo Diamanti)
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Montebello” (Console Italo Vianini) – VI and XXX Battaglione CC.NN.; XII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Tagliamento” (Console Domenico Mittica) – LXIII and LXXIX Battaglione CC.NN.; LXIII Battaglione Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms] (Army).
Best regards,
Shawn
SOURCE: Stato Maggiore Dell’Esercito – Ufficio Storico (General Staff of the Army – Historical Office). Le Operaazioni Delle Unità Italiane Al Fronte Russo (1941-1943). Rome, 2000 (3rd Edition).
As of 10 December 1942, the Blackshirt formations were assigned as follows:
Italian II Corps
Raggruppamento CC.NN. “23 Marzo” (Luogotenente Generale Luigi Martinesi)
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Leonessa” (Console Graziano Sardu) – XIV and XV Battaglione CC.NN.; XXXVIII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Valle Scrivia” (Console Mario Bertoni) – V and XXXIV Battaglione CC.NN.; XLI Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
Italian XXXV Corps
Raggruppamento CC.NN. “3 Gennaio” (Luogotenente Generale Filippo Diamanti)
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Montebello” (Console Italo Vianini) – VI and XXX Battaglione CC.NN.; XII Battaglione CC.NN. Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms].
• Gruppo Battaglioni CC.NN. “M” “Tagliamento” (Console Domenico Mittica) – LXIII and LXXIX Battaglione CC.NN.; LXIII Battaglione Armi d’Accompagnamento [support arms] (Army).
Best regards,
Shawn
SOURCE: Stato Maggiore Dell’Esercito – Ufficio Storico (General Staff of the Army – Historical Office). Le Operaazioni Delle Unità Italiane Al Fronte Russo (1941-1943). Rome, 2000 (3rd Edition).
- Lupo Solitario
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the structure had been debated here:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... pagnamento
the dependance was that described by shawn (II and XXXV Corps). I add that blackshirt worked as Corps reserve launching counterattacks during the front breaking phase (usually divided in tactical groups). In retreat they mixed with other units
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... pagnamento
the dependance was that described by shawn (II and XXXV Corps). I add that blackshirt worked as Corps reserve launching counterattacks during the front breaking phase (usually divided in tactical groups). In retreat they mixed with other units
- David C. Clarke
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- Lupo Solitario
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- Location: Italy, country of sun, wine and morons
- David C. Clarke
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- Posts: 11368
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 18:17
- Location: U.S. of A.
Hello DCC,
maybe someone can shed more light on the address of the following homepage.
(As I saved the pages, I lost the URL)
Regio Esercito - MVSN - Campagna di Russia 1941-1943
On the list are:
63a Legione d'Assalto
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Montebello»
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Leonessa»
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Valle Scrivia»
I don't wanna post more, because I'm not sure about the copyright.
I hope this little info is of any help.
MfG Michi
maybe someone can shed more light on the address of the following homepage.
(As I saved the pages, I lost the URL)
Regio Esercito - MVSN - Campagna di Russia 1941-1943
On the list are:
63a Legione d'Assalto
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Montebello»
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Leonessa»
Gruppo di Btgg CC.NN. «M» «Valle Scrivia»
I don't wanna post more, because I'm not sure about the copyright.
I hope this little info is of any help.
MfG Michi
- Lupo Solitario
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mmm...it comes from an italian-speaking site and uses the italian original denominations and not translate them in english as we do.
The title simply tell "Army and MVSN units in Russian campaign from 1941 to 1943"
follows list of regiment-level MVSN units (I suppose there are army ones, too): Tagliamento is indicated with its 1941 name (63rd Legion) and are not indicated the two raggruppamento commands "23 Marzo" and "3 Gennaio"....not so detailed and in some way confused.
Shawn list is really better.
my 2 cents
The title simply tell "Army and MVSN units in Russian campaign from 1941 to 1943"
follows list of regiment-level MVSN units (I suppose there are army ones, too): Tagliamento is indicated with its 1941 name (63rd Legion) and are not indicated the two raggruppamento commands "23 Marzo" and "3 Gennaio"....not so detailed and in some way confused.
Shawn list is really better.
my 2 cents
- Luca Rovetta
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I agree with Lupo.
The "Capomanipolo" Battistini Guerriero, of LXXIX btg. CC. NN. gained the gold medal for military valour at Tscherkowo. You can see the explanation at http://www.quirinale.it/onorificenze/De ... rato=45329
Bye
The "Capomanipolo" Battistini Guerriero, of LXXIX btg. CC. NN. gained the gold medal for military valour at Tscherkowo. You can see the explanation at http://www.quirinale.it/onorificenze/De ... rato=45329
Bye
Somewhere on this page must it be
For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.
edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)
MfG Michi
For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.
edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)
MfG Michi
- Lupo Solitario
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heh heh...transliterating cyrillic had always been a trouble....
anyway the page is of Vito Zita and AFAIK practically mirrors works of italian army official bureau (so it's a good way to read them without have to buy books) Vito has done a good job.
Message for David I believe there shoud be also many of infos you're looking for on blackshirts...
bye
anyway the page is of Vito Zita and AFAIK practically mirrors works of italian army official bureau (so it's a good way to read them without have to buy books) Vito has done a good job.
Message for David I believe there shoud be also many of infos you're looking for on blackshirts...
bye
- Allen Milcic
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Hello:Michi wrote:Somewhere on this page must it be
For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.
edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)
MfG Michi
As far as I know, there is no letter "w" in the Russian alphabet.
Allen/
-
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And there's no "W", (nor a "K") in the Italian alphabet too. But: practically all the east front city names in Italian literature have the following origin:Allen Milcic wrote:Hello:Michi wrote:Somewhere on this page must it be
For the term Chertkovo I have found some different spelling on ONE(!) Italian homepage:
Tscherkov
Certkovo
Tcherkovo
Tchertkowo
and maybe more if you change the v to w and vice versa.
edited:
The Italian >>Milizia Volontaria Sicurezza Nazionale (MVSN)<< on the Eastern Front (in Italian)
MfG Michi
As far as I know, there is no letter "w" in the Russian alphabet.
Allen/
The maps used by the Italian HQ were Germans, with the German transliteration of the Russian names (hence, I believe, the uso of "W" where the sound was a "V" for an Italian. In German the "V" is pronounced as an Italian "F" or of "TCH" for "C", as in German "C" is pronounced more or less like an Italian "Z"). Only major Russian cities had an Italian correspondance, like Mosca (Moscow), Kiev, etc. For the other town names in literature during the years it was sometimes taken the German transliteration "as is", some other times this trasliteration was re-transliterated into Italian Tchertkowo = Certc(k)ovo etc. . Needless to say this is a little bit confusing, but I'm sure this is not an Italian-only problem, being that not only the Italians had to render in Latin alphabet word coming from a Cirillic alphabet.
Best regards
- David C. Clarke
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Excellent post FB!!
Personally, I've always been amused at how many different ways one could spell "Tatsinskaya". And of course, there is the slightly ominous fact that some Russsian place names occur in different parts of Russia, which makes looking for particular villages an exciting experience.
But then, that's one of the challenges of studying the Ostfront!
Best Regards,
David
Personally, I've always been amused at how many different ways one could spell "Tatsinskaya". And of course, there is the slightly ominous fact that some Russsian place names occur in different parts of Russia, which makes looking for particular villages an exciting experience.
But then, that's one of the challenges of studying the Ostfront!
Best Regards,
David