ITALIAN SUBMARINE

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
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Ezboard

ITALIAN SUBMARINE

#1

Post by Ezboard » 30 Sep 2002, 20:28

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 1
(1/21/02 11:44:06 am)
Reply ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Hello I need help to find photos,information, websites, books and anything els about the italian submarine Mocenigo and its commander Alberto Agostini. i want it becuse I am planning to do a website about my grandfather that was on a boat called S/S MANGEN and it was sanked by a italian submarine called Mocenigo or morosini??

spook
Visitor
(1/21/02 12:42:47 pm)
Reply Mangan and Italian submarine
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Rallanboy - where and on what date was the MANGAN
sunk - if you know from where it was coming and to where it was going - I (might) be able to help.

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 2
(1/21/02 1:32:09 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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It sunk 21/12 1940 kl 22:09 in the atlantic

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 3
(1/21/02 1:34:04 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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I dont now where it was coming and to where it was going

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 4
(1/21/02 1:37:50 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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The name was S/S Mangen not Mangan=)

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 5
(1/21/02 1:39:09 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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I am glad to get any information you can get

Erik Ettrup
Member

Posts: 70
(1/21/02 5:31:51 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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The two subs "R.Smg Mocenigo" and "R.Smg Vellela" Were covering the area between Portugal ant the azores.
On the 21 dec-40, "Mocenigo" spotted the convoy OG-47.
The convoy came from Cardiff, their destination was Lisboa.
The swedish ship "D/S Mangen" (1258 BRT) were hit by a torpedo and sunk in pos 41N-17W. "Mocenigo" also fired a spread against another ship, without success.
A Norwegian sailor, Olaus Clausen, was killed in the attack.
(I don`t know the fate of the other crewmembers)
Mocenigo followed the convoy and launched another attack on the next day. He fired upon 2 ships but missed them both.

This was Alberto Agostini only operation agains allied shipping.
"D/S Mangen" was the only ship he ever sunk.

The sub, "Mocenigo", was sunk during a air raid in Cagliari on the 13 may 1943. At that time Alberto Longhi were captain

Hope this was of some interest?
If you need more info about "D/S Mangen", I can probably dig up some more.

Regards
Erik E
Norway
(Sverige: Lykke til med skiskyting i OL)





Edited by: Erik Ettrup at: 1/21/02 5:33:16 pm

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 6
(1/22/02 8:53:37 am)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Thanks Erik for the information.
Do you now anything about how many boats it was in the convoy and how many and what types of ships that was guarding theme?
Do you haw any technic data about Mangen, when it was build?, and where?
Do you now where I can found photos of the ship, the sub? the captain on the ship? the commander on the sub
Thanks again I am glad for any information I can get.

regards
rallanboy
Sverige



Erik Ettrup
Member

Posts: 73
(1/22/02 4:47:44 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Hello again

I just got some more info on this ship:
Built in 1922 at Christiansands mekaniske verksted (south Norway) The owner was F.ahlmark & Co eftr AB in Karlstad

On the 6 dec-40, "Mangen" left Cardiff with a load of 1400 Ton coal. She joined OG47 outside Milford Haven. In position 40.45N-16.50N, She got hit by a torpedo on the midship port side. Both lifeboats were destroyed so everyone had to jump into the sea. The ship went down within 3 minutes.
12 survivors were rescued by the Swedish ship "Garm" (also in OG47) They arrived Lisboa on christmas eve.
8 men were lost. 6 Swedes, 1 Norwegian and 1 Unknown (for me)
Kapt. Adolf Waldemar Andersson survived among the 12

I am not aware of any photos
I`ll try to get some more on OG47

Regards
Erik E

Erik Ettrup
Member

Posts: 74
(1/22/02 8:57:56 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Hallo Igjen!

The convoy had 30 ships. D/S Mangen was the only loss.
Escort was probably carried out by 1 st escort group.

Regards
Erik E

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 7
(1/23/02 10:04:50 am)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Thanks again Erik!=)

rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 8
(1/23/02 10:10:24 am)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Men of the crew that died

Förste styrman Anders Kristian Johansson, Karlstad, född 31 Augusti 1907
Övermaskinist Henning Walter Nilsson, Norrköping, född 5 Januari 1893
Matros Frans Henning Verner Magnusson, Söderåkra, född 10 Juni 1909
Lättmatros Enn Hansu Tagamäe, Undla Estland, född 9 Oktober 1907
Lättmatros Olaus Ingvald Clausen, Höjland Norge, född 5 Juli 1923
Jungman Sven Åberg, Göteborg, född 11 December 1919
((Eldare Fred Bernhard Larsson, Göteborg, född 7 Maj 1917 My Grandfather))
Lämpare Oskar Harry Gustafsson, Göteborg, född 30 augusti 1922


rallanboy
New Member
Posts: 9
(1/26/02 5:41:13 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Hej igen Erik, jag skulle gärna vilja veta vad du har använt för källor???

MvH
Rallanboy

Erik Ettrup
Member

Posts: 79
(1/27/02 11:00:11 pm)
Reply Re: ITALIAN SUBMARINE
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Jeg kjenner en del folk innen dette miljøet :)


alfonzo
Visitor
(2/1/02 7:31:54 pm)
Reply submarine?
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italians had a submarine?it was probably built like an italian car

Ennio
Visitor
(2/1/02 11:28:44 pm)
Reply Get informed, Alonzo
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Alfonzo, have a look at this site. It is American, it does not bite, and you may learn something:

reformed-theology.org/htm...ter_08.htm

You will be even more surprised to find that J. Stalin nearly aquired 3 "Vittorio Veneto" Battleships from Mussolini, in addition to the plans of a lot of the most modern Soviet warships, the power plant of a lot of others, etc.
And, by the way, Italy had the largest submarine fleet in the world in 1940.
Surprised?

Judah
Visitor
(2/2/02 12:40:26 pm)
Reply Italian subs and cars
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Yes, the Italians had subs - and plenty of them.
But like their cars - did they work?Or were they mostly
broken down in one or a thouand respects.?
AFter some personal experience and much advice;
'never buy an Italian car, ALWAYS BUY TWO.
Because one - will be in a garage being 'fixed' all the
time.'

Ennio
Visitor
(2/2/02 3:43:44 pm)
Reply Of cars and subs
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Italian subs had some design limitations as they were designed for use in the Mediterranean, but some advantage over German equivalent types, like carrying more torpedoes, greater fuel range, etc. All pros and cons that could be debated, like for any other weapon system. In terms of reliability, I have never heard of any complaint in that respect; for example Italian "heavy" subs from '41 to '43 were used to sail regularly from the Italian subs base in the Atlantic (Bordeaux) to Japan (a 12.000 Km. run!) carrying vital supplies to the Japanese (like prototype radars) and getting back things like tin, rubber, etc. without any being lost or captured due to mechanical failures. And, by the way, the last US aircraft (a B 25) shot down in WW II by enemy fire was shot down over Tokio bay a few days before the surrender of Japan by one of those Italian subs, whose crew had joined the Japanese Navy when far away Italy had signed the Armistice with the Allies. The whole crew received Japanese citizenship after the war, the only Gai Jins to be so honored.
For cars, I don't know which Italian car you can afford....but try one of the latest Alfa Romeo. If you can buy it, of course. As I personally like jeeps, I drive a Japanese one. Italian car makers do not make jeeps.

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