italian submarines

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LColombo
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Re: italian submarines

Post by LColombo » 17 Dec 2017 23:08

The submarine in the photo is Italian, not a U-Boat.

Pola was the seat of the Italian Navy's Submarine School, various submarines (mostly from the older classes) were stationed there thoroughout the war as training boats. I do not have a complete list of the submarines assigned there but these included, at various times, Ettore Fieramosca, Luigi Settembrini, Emo, Luciano Manara, Goffredo Mameli, Fisalia, Adua, Marcantonio Bragadin, Francesco Rismondo, Des Geneys, Serpente, Medusa (sunk off Pola by HMS Thorn in January 1942 with the loss of 58 men, including several cadets), Jalea, Otaria, Enrico Toti, Ciro Menotti, Giovanni Bausan, Velella, Delfino, Balilla, Domenico Millelire, Tito Speri, Squalo, Diaspro and others.

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tigre
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Re: italian submarines

Post by tigre » 18 Dec 2017 02:32

Thank you for that useful info on this subject. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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tigre
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Re: italian submarines

Post by tigre » 01 Jan 2018 21:37

Hello to all :D; more ...............................

Sinking of the smg Uebi Scebeli.

On June 27, 1940, the smg Uebi Scebeli, under tenente di vascello Bruno Zani, sailed from Taranto for her third combat mission, an ambush northwest of Derna. At 6:30 (or 6:20) on the morning of June 29, sailing on the surface off the coast of Crete during the approach to the ambush, the Uebi Scebeli sighted a formation of British destroyers: they were the Dainty, Defender , Decoy, Voyager and Ilex (the "C" Force), participating in anti-submarine raking in the central Mediterranean between Alexandria and Tobruk to protect the British supply operation "MA 3" of Malta, Egypt and Greece. The five units had already sunk two days before, the Italian submersible Liuzzi, and had just finished an attack on another submarine with uncertain result (it is possible that a second Italian submersible, the Argonaut was sunk). At 6:42 the Ilex sighted the Uebi Scebeli, on the surface, at a distance of eight miles, to the 330º: while the Decoy and the Voyager remained at the site of the first attack, the Dainty, the Defender and the Ilex went at full speed to the Uebi Scebeli, who had to crash dive, and the Dainty and the Ilex attacked her with depth charges.

The submersible tried to maneuver to get away and avoid the depth charges, but it was badly damaged (waterways were opened and several instruments stopped working), so much that she had to emerge from the damage received: just on the surface, was surrounded by Destroyers, who attacked her with precise shots of cannons and machine guns that repeatedly hit the conning tower. Commander Zani discovered that the ship was sinking slowly due to damage, while British ships stopped firing as soon as they saw the crew climb onto the deck to leave the unit, they were about to board: Therefore, Zani commanded accelerate the sinking, throw the files into the sea and abandon the submersible. The secret documents on board (codes, encrypted, orders of operations and others), including the new code of the Regia Marina, which had been approved a few days ago, were taken to the bridge and thrown into the water one after the other while Zani controlled the operation , but he saw that some of the secret publications, although (usually) had been equipped with appropriate lead weights to ensure a quick sinking and avoid capture, were still afloat. The boats of the British destroyers approached quickly, with the obvious intention of boarding the submarine.

Commander Zani again ordered to accelerate the sinking, but in the meantime, a Defender's crew had boarded the submarine and two British officers came aboard; The two went down inside the submarine and reached the control room, but Zani followed immediately and told them that the ship was sinking. Seeing the water on the floor in the control room, the two British officers returned to the deck immediately. Meanwhile, the crew of Uebi Scebeli left the ship: some men threw themselves into the water, but most went directly to the boats of the destroyers. Finally also Commander Zani, the second commander (Lieutenant Gian Giacomo Manfredi), the chief engineer (tenente del Genio Navale Direzione Macchine Uttieri) and the Navigation officer (sottotenente di vascello Rupil) boarded one of the boats, along with the two British officers.

Sources: http://conlapelleappesaaunchiodo.blogsp ... ebeli.html
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1940-British-Des ... Sw5cRZNqkx

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Feliz Año Nuevo - Happy New Year - feliz Ano Novo - glückliches Neues Jahr - Bonne Année - Felice Anno Nuovo - Szczęśliwego nowego roku!! :thumbsup:
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tigre
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Re: italian submarines

Post by tigre » 11 Feb 2018 14:34

Hello to all :D; more ..................................
Italian submersible in port.
Sources: https://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-altes- ... 0009.m1982

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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BSM44
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Re: italian submarines

Post by BSM44 » 18 Feb 2018 10:10

Hello,
Nice picture, but from which Harbour this photo was taken ? Bordeaux ? Thank you.
Cheers. :)

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tigre
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Re: italian submarines

Post by tigre » 07 Apr 2018 21:11

Hello to all :D; more ..................................

A successful Italian Submersible.

Sources: https://digitalcollections.nypl.org/ite ... 0a180637ac

At the time of the photo it was still supposed that she had destroyed a US battleship of the Maryland class of 32,000 tons. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Nice picture, but from which Harbour this photo was taken ? Bordeaux ? Thank you.


I tend to think yes, Bordeaux................
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Edward L. Hsiao
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Re: italian submarines

Post by Edward L. Hsiao » 22 Jun 2018 06:53

Gentlemen,

The Italian sub Leonardo da Vinci had sunk her biggest ship called Empress of Britain,a converted liner which unfortunately packed with Italian POWs. 392 people died aboard that ship mostly Italian POWs. It was a bittersweet victory for the sub. Leonardo da Vinci didn't reach home after that big kill. She was sunk by two Royal Navy destroyers.
I just remembered that the big ship that was sunk by the Italian sub Leonardo da Vinci was called Empress of Canada not Empress of Britain.
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tigre
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Re: italian submarines

Post by tigre » 31 Dec 2018 13:41

Hello to all :D; more ..................................
BETASOM - France.
Sources: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Frankreich- ... 0012.m1985

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Feliz Año Nuevo - Happy New Year - feliz Ano Novo - gluckliches Neues Jahr - Bonne Année - Felice Anno Nuovo - Szczęśliwego nowego roku!! :thumbsup:
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Macnut64
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Re: italian submarines

Post by Macnut64 » 23 Mar 2019 22:43

I have been wondering something for a long time. It has often been said that U-boats could easily enter the Mediterranean via Gibraltar, but that it was almost impossible for them to go back into the Atlantic, and that only one U-boat ever accomplished this, rather early in the war. But dozens of Italian submarines operated in the Atlantic; maybe a few were out there on patrol when Italy entered the war, but I would imagine most of them crossed into the Atlantic afterwards. So, if the Italians could apparently do this with ease, what was the problem for the U-boats? Something here doesn't add up for me.

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Re: italian submarines

Post by LColombo » 23 Mar 2019 23:46

It is, indeed, an interesting question. To be more precise, twenty-seven Italian submarines crossed the strait of Gibraltar from the Mediterranean towards the Atlantic, all between the late summer and the early autumn of 1940. None was lost; several found that the main danger, rather than the ASW surveillance, were the strong underwater currents of the straits, which often caused them to fall well beyond test depth, down to 150 meters and more, sometimes causing damage. One further Italian submarine, Ammiraglio Cagni, crossed the straits in October 1942; it also made it safely to the Atlantic.

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jwsleser
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Re: italian submarines

Post by jwsleser » 25 Mar 2019 04:07

Agree, an interesting puzzle.
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Carl Schwamberger
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Re: italian submarines

Post by Carl Schwamberger » 25 Apr 2019 18:01

There are two contra currents running through the Gibraltar strait. A warm water current near the surface and a dense swift cold current below. Transiting the contact level between these could create problems for the sub.

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Re: italian submarines

Post by Dili » 25 Apr 2019 19:40

Glauco also went to Atlantic in 1941

LColombo
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Re: italian submarines

Post by LColombo » 25 Apr 2019 22:22

Carl Schwamberger wrote:
25 Apr 2019 18:01
There are two contra currents running through the Gibraltar strait. A warm water current near the surface and a dense swift cold current below. Transiting the contact level between these could create problems for the sub.
This problem, however, should have been the same for both Italian and German submarines.

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Re: italian submarines

Post by LColombo » 25 Apr 2019 22:28

Dili wrote:
25 Apr 2019 19:40
Glauco also went to Atlantic in 1941
No, Glauco went to the Atlantic in 1940: sailed from Naples on 26 Sepember, crossed Gibraltar on 2 October, ran into the currents, "sank" to 120 meters without suffering damage, proceeded to patrol area and patrolled it, reached Bordeaux on 22 October.

Perhaps you meant that Glauco was lost in 1941 when trying to go back to the Mediterranean? This was indeed the only Italian submarine to be lost while crossing the strait of Gibraltar, albeit this happened while trying to go from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean instead of vice versa. Located by destroyer HMS Wishart on 27 June 1941 while crossing the strait submerged, depth charged, forced to surface, further damaged by gunfire and then scuttled by the crew. One officer and seven ratings were killed, 7 officers and 44 ratings survived and were taken prisoner.

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