German-Italian Relations?

Discussions on all aspects of Italy under Fascism from the March on Rome to the end of the war.
George Lerner
Member
Posts: 91
Joined: 20 Aug 2005 09:35
Location: Around

German-Italian Relations?

Post by George Lerner » 14 Feb 2006 15:21

I'm just wondering about the relations between Hitler and Mussonli.

Also my second question is the relations were good enough for the Germans to make an honorary title for an Italian Division 'Mussolini'

nurenig
Member
Posts: 78
Joined: 29 Nov 2004 21:28
Location: Ireland

Post by nurenig » 14 Feb 2006 16:03

Well I dont think they where that good considering the Italains didnt tell Hitler about the Invasion of Greece.

User avatar
Warager
Member
Posts: 362
Joined: 28 Apr 2005 16:47
Location: Spain

Post by Warager » 14 Feb 2006 20:11

my second question is the relations were good enough for the Germans to make an honorary title for an Italian Division 'Mussolini'
:lol: there was 2 divisions in the waffen ss with italian soldiers and one was named karstjager and the other was not even named by the germans so i think it was impossible for a division to be named after Mussolini

Deine-Zukunft
Member
Posts: 620
Joined: 25 Aug 2005 19:33
Location: Suomi

Post by Deine-Zukunft » 14 Feb 2006 20:49

Hitler and Mussolini were best mates though there are few conflicts between them.

- Hitler didnt tell his invasion of France not even his plans what he are going to do.

- Mussolini got angry when Germany didnt help Finland in winter war.

- Hitler didnt tell about barbarossa even to his most closest comrade.

- Mussolini got angry cause Hitler agreed russo-german pact.

- Mussolini feared Hitlers occupations before the war and tried to restrain Hitler.

- Mussolini got ashamed cause of his miserable army and finally got mad and did one another insane commands and Hitler tolerated this far too long and too friendly if we look what was the most important thing for Germany and wehrmacht.

Vice versa

- Hitler got very mad about Mussolinis attack to Greece.Hitler had expressly told Mussolini not to attack Greece and Mussolini consciously attacked and not regarding Hitlers warning and eventually Hitler had to help him.


- Hitler got mad about Mussolinis wretched crusade plan in North-Africa.



Hitler and Mussolini had very good relations and when Mussolini spoke to germans in 1938(im not sure about the year) german audience went totally mad about his speech and incited him and that Mussolini liked,germans inciting him.In italy one of Mussolinis speeches he said that Italy is bounded to Germany(declaration of war speech) and yelled sieg heil to italians and italians too yelled this slogan.

Italians and germans had good relations but cause Italy was militarily imperfect and war started to go badly,relationship between these 2 nations started chill especially in Italy anti-german feelings and movements started to be popular.

User avatar
Davide Pastore
Member
Posts: 2768
Joined: 26 Nov 2005 22:05
Location: Germagnano, Italy

Re: German-Italian Relations?

Post by Davide Pastore » 14 Feb 2006 20:58

George Lerner wrote:I'm just wondering about the relations between Hitler and Mussonli.
The relation between the two persons (different from: between the two countries) was 100% friendly during the entire war, first day to last day. Although Hitler might occasionally going mad about something the Italian nation did, he never got angry against his good old friend Benito.
George Lerner wrote:Also my second question is the relations were good enough for the Germans to make an honorary title for an Italian Division 'Mussolini'
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that official German policy was to name a division / a ship / an air wing etc. after a dead person, not an alive one.

Davide

Deine-Zukunft
Member
Posts: 620
Joined: 25 Aug 2005 19:33
Location: Suomi

Post by Deine-Zukunft » 14 Feb 2006 21:05

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that official German policy was to name a division / a ship / an air wing etc. after a dead person, not an alive one.
Yes allthough what i have heard.

Good example for that would be Graf Spee.

User avatar
Davide Pastore
Member
Posts: 2768
Joined: 26 Nov 2005 22:05
Location: Germagnano, Italy

Post by Davide Pastore » 14 Feb 2006 21:12

Actually it is the policy followed by nearly all navies around the globe, the last USN aircraft carriers (Reagan, Bush) being a noteworthy exception.

Davide

|AXiN|
Member
Posts: 138
Joined: 26 May 2004 07:53
Location: Australia

Post by |AXiN| » 15 Feb 2006 00:10

And the LSSAH, of course.

User avatar
Pips
Member
Posts: 1217
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 08:44
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

Post by Pips » 20 Feb 2006 12:05

One of the best books on the subject of the close relationship between Hitler and Mussolini is by MacGregor Knox, titled "Common Destiny: Dictatorship, Foreign Policy, and War in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany".

It covers in detail the Summits between the two, the close bond of friendship that existed through to the end, the changing role between the two men (Mussolini was in fact Hitlers mentor for quite a while), each countrie sfighting prowess in relation to the other, the factors that contributed to both each mans grab for power and how each country was ripe for a form of dictatorship; even deals with the italian view of Germany's bitter race war against the Jews and Mussolini's determination not to give in to a similar actions.

Really recommend it for anyone keen to understand Italy's role in WWII.

User avatar
landser32
Member
Posts: 711
Joined: 10 Aug 2004 20:39
Location: Peoples Republic, New Jersey

Post by landser32 » 09 Mar 2006 18:50

I recently viewed the Leon Degrille series made in 1981 that was transferred to DVD and he states that it was Hitlers friendship the Il duce that cost him the war period and he makes a good case for that. From the Invasion of Greece that put off Barbarossa by a month to his failed attempt to invade Egypt with 3 to 1 odds in favor AND his declining of 2 German armored divisions before even doing so is what Degriille points out.

If you can find it, get it.


Landser32

User avatar
FRANCY RITTER
Member
Posts: 3031
Joined: 02 Dec 2004 18:12
Location: PARMA City of European Food Safety Authority ITALY

Post by FRANCY RITTER » 10 Mar 2006 09:15

Hello!! :)


Paraded of "Giovani Fascisti" (Young Fascists ) at Munich .
From Ebay Exp.Auction

Image

User avatar
Sudetenlander
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: 25 May 2005 19:33
Location: Michigan, USA

Post by Sudetenlander » 10 Apr 2006 06:13

I believe at first they were rivals until just after the Spanish Civil War and Italy's invasion of Ethiopia/Abussinia in 1937. Prior to that, Mussolini opposed Hitler's vision of anschluss with Austria. The two of them met in Venice in 1934 and it appears it did not go well. Afterwards, Mussolini had viewed Hitler as a junior partner to the Axis.

Mussolini facilitated the Munich agreement and the annexation of the Sudetenland; however, he was upset with Hitler when he occupied the remainder of Czechoslovakia in 1939. Mussolini saw Germany as carving out its own empire in europe, and IMO, this is the reason why Mussolini took over Albania.

User avatar
tigre
Member
Posts: 9504
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 11:48
Location: Argentina

Re: German-Italian Relations?

Post by tigre » 03 Dec 2021 12:02

Hello to all :D; some examples..................................

The Reich and the Empire.

Source: https://www.alamy.de/fotos-bilder/ein-s ... lutze.html
https://stampauctionnetwork.com/SL/sl5129.cfm

Cheers.Raúl M 8-).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Hans1906
Member
Posts: 3393
Joined: 06 Jan 2020 23:13
Location: Deutschland

Re: German-Italian Relations?

Post by Hans1906 » 03 Dec 2021 18:28

A Bibliotheca Hertziana research project looks at the official art and architecture in Fascist Italy between 1936 and 1943, during the period of the ‘Rome-Berlin Axis’ proclaimed by Mussolini. The way in which the regime presented itself and the way in which the two totalitarian states perceived and influenced each other is of particular interest. The study focuses on Adolf Hitler’s visit to Rome in 1938, the events leading up to it and its consequences.
Source: https://www.mpg.de/376970/forschungsSchwerpunkt

There are photos galore, I remember an earlier inquiry about the fascist dagger and the badge of the honorary corporal of the fascist militia from me.
All questions were perfectly answered by Herr Mark Costa at that time.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=71359&p=644851&hil ... er#p644851


Hans
„Im Leben gibt’s die Bösen und die Guten. Und die dazwischen, das sind die Bagaluten.“

Return to “Italy under Fascism 1922-1945”