Rations - why bread?

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
BeeWac
Member
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Nov 2017, 18:22
Location: USA

Rations - why bread?

#1

Post by BeeWac » 22 Jun 2018, 19:28

It seems that when times were tough for the German army, it always came down to bread. But from what I gather, bread isn't all that nutritious. Why not send dehydrated fruits/vegetables to Stalingrad/other battlefronts? My guess is that classically nutritious foods are better suited for long term health whereas foods like bread and chocolate, while poor lifestyle habits, provide those bursts of hollow energy soldiers need for desperate combat. Or maybe bread was cheaper to produce?

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: Rations - why bread?

#2

Post by Cult Icon » 22 Jun 2018, 19:35

bread is way cheaper to produce per calorie- check the price of flour


User avatar
pintere
Financial supporter
Posts: 459
Joined: 03 Jan 2015, 23:04
Location: Moose Jaw

Re: Rations - why bread?

#3

Post by pintere » 22 Jun 2018, 21:45

You also would be hard pressed to get the calories you need from just vegetables and fruit. They are definitely great health foods but you would need a lot to provide the necessary raw energy required for soldiering.

LineDoggie
Member
Posts: 1275
Joined: 03 Oct 2008, 21:06

Re: Rations - why bread?

#4

Post by LineDoggie » 23 Jun 2018, 03:18

Average Soldier expends 3000 calories a day in wartime just with normal duties. Wehrmacht tried to feed hot chow more often then the US did (US answer was throw them some K rats for months at a time) Bread is Filling, can be used as a base for other foodstuffs and easy to make and transport compared to fruits and veggies. They also had a pellet that could be crushed and added to boiling water for a soup base
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

Art
Forum Staff
Posts: 7028
Joined: 04 Jun 2004, 20:49
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: Rations - why bread?

#5

Post by Art » 23 Jun 2018, 08:17

BeeWac wrote:But from what I gather, bread isn't all that nutritious. Why not send dehydrated fruits/vegetables to Stalingrad/other battlefronts?
Bread (especially white bread made of fine flour) is a nutritious product with a high content of fast carbs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_ ... sification
Unlike other carb-rich products like rice or potatoes bread contains pretty large % of proteins.
Germany didn't transport bread to the fronts, it was rather baked on the spot (each German division had a specialized bakery company for that). Moreover flour wasn't always transported to the Eastern Front either, but like many other products was largely appropriated from occupied territories. Flour was easy to transport and to store, then the bread itself was easily converted to biscuits which were a very advantageous product from a military standpoint (high calories per weight, little degradation with time, ready to use without thermal preparation). For those reasons bread and biscuits made a large and important part of military rations prior to XX century.

User avatar
Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
Member
Posts: 5761
Joined: 27 Jul 2004, 02:30
Location: Cleveland ,tennessee

Re: Rations - why bread?

#6

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 24 Jun 2018, 03:59

And, fruits and veggies were non existant during the out of growing seasons of germany, occupied countries like they had year round access to fuits and veggies, lol

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: Rations - why bread?

#7

Post by Cult Icon » 24 Jun 2018, 21:20

It's expensive for the modern person to subsist on fruits, vegetables, and meats- let alone in the 1940s..

The german rations of the time had a huge energy portion from grains and a rather small meat allocation (too small to build much muscle). the slender physiques are a testament to this.

User avatar
Hoplophile
Member
Posts: 213
Joined: 07 Sep 2006, 11:44
Location: Quantico, VA
Contact:

Re: Rations - why bread?

#8

Post by Hoplophile » 24 Jun 2018, 22:38

Here is a telling little anecdote, from Walter Bloem, The Advance from Mons: The Experiences of a German Infantry Officer, (Warwick: Helion, 2004), p. 37. (The original German book was called Vormarsch.)

Screen Shot 2018-06-24 at 4.32.35 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-06-24 at 4.32.35 PM.png (196.99 KiB) Viewed 7489 times

User avatar
Sheldrake
Member
Posts: 3726
Joined: 28 Apr 2013, 18:14
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Rations - why bread?

#9

Post by Sheldrake » 25 Jun 2018, 02:04

Bread has been the main component of German (and other army's rations) rations since the middle ages. No other food stuff could be relied on to feed armies of tens of thousands in the field. Campaigning in the age of reason was constrained by the need to build brick field ovens every two days. Clever quartermasters would leap frog the bread ovens which took around 12 hours to build and fire before they could be used. Frederick the Great could literally steal a march by using mobile iron ovens that would be ready within an hour or so.

Bread is cheap and the raw material flour can be stored and transported.

German rations were supposed to included a balanced diet of food from different categories. 700g rye bread, 90-136 g fresh meat (or soya flour or fish), dried fresh or tinned vegetables, pudding powder or condensed milk, fats coffee tea and 3-7 cigarettes- max weight 1.67Kg Each division had field bakery butchery companies that provided the bread and meat. The ideal was to provide hot food in unit cookers This was fine at rest or in positional warfare. Troops in transit would be issued march rations - for no more than three or four consecutive days 700g rye bread, 200g cold meat or cheese60g of fats or spreads plus coffee tea sugar and cigarettes. This is the kind of ration Bloem's Brandenburg Grenadiers were missing -but would have been familiar to the soldiers of 1870 or 1815.

The Germans were quite backward with their rations.Yes they had clever rations for alpine troops or U boat crews. But they had nothing like the composite rations that allowed detachment cooking. Even as late as the 1980s German armour would be visited by the Speiss in the field with his Gulasch Kannone. the Leopard II was not fitted with a kettle.(Unlike British AFVs which had multi purpose tea kettles/deep fat fryers without which morale suffers)

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: Rations - why bread?

#10

Post by Cult Icon » 26 Jun 2018, 23:54

Maybe the Gulash kannone was an intentional moral/comradeship/bonding thing?

With the german rations, the meat portion sticks out as being low (around 30 grams of protein). Protein from grains is incomplete proteins, lacking in certain amino acids.

I wonder how they adjusted the ration for very tall men, who have higher needs.

ManfredV
Member
Posts: 460
Joined: 10 May 2005, 11:55
Location: Pirmasens

Re: Rations - why bread?

#11

Post by ManfredV » 27 Jun 2018, 21:05

It was war and they had to take what they had and what was easy to carry and use. It wasn't neither a restaurant menu nor a " nutrition science laboratory test".
And bread was (and is today) very important in Germany. Don't having bread - impossible for Germans.

Forward00
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: 13 Jan 2017, 16:20
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Rations - why bread?

#12

Post by Forward00 » 28 Jul 2018, 16:16

Cult Icon wrote:
24 Jun 2018, 21:20
It's expensive for the modern person to subsist on fruits, vegetables, and meats- let alone in the 1940s..

The german rations of the time had a huge energy portion from grains and a rather small meat allocation (too small to build much muscle). the slender physiques are a testament to this.
do you think if the meat allocation was increased, then the soldiers would be noticeably more muscle bound? The Germans that I see in pictures are all of an athletic/slender physique and look (in my opinion) better than some soldiers of today who are very big bulky guys.

Felix C
Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: 04 Jul 2007, 17:25
Location: Miami, Fl

Re: Rations - why bread?

#13

Post by Felix C » 28 Jul 2018, 19:10

Pemmican or similar would have been more useful. Meat, fat, natural sugars from fruit. Lighter than a bread ration. Provides the protein, fats, and glucose needed for arduous daily activities. You see why it was used by explorers in regions where living off the land was not feasible. I think the British bully beef and biscuit ration a good one. Hardtack or similar would be a lighter weight and volume substitute. of course tradition......=bread.

Although I see this and think I am probably in error: Defects of Pemmican as an Emergency Ration for Infantry Troops
Nutrition Reviews, Volume 3, Issue 10, 1 October 1945, Pages 314–315,

Abstract : A selected platoon of seasoned troops underwent strenuous manoeuvres under Arctic conditions, the sole ration being pemmican and tea. By the second day nausea, weakness and excessive fatigue seriously unpaired efficiency, and "the third day brought the platoon to the point of disintegration as a military unit". The Calorie intake during this period varied from 800 to 3800 per man daily (average 1500) and the estimated output varied from 2800 to 5200 Cal. daily. The men suffered from dehydration, low chloride reserves and severe acidosis. A high-carbohydrate diet caused a remarkable improvement within 12 hours, but residual impairment of efficiency in some cases lasted up to a week. Three platoons undertaking the same exercises on a good field ration showed no similar change. A review of the literature on Arctic exploration leads the authors to the conclusion that there is no authentic example of an expedition thriving on a diet of which pemmican was a main component; in particular, Stefansson's recent advocacy of pemmican (Milit Surgeon, 1944, 95, 89) is considered to be unjustified. W. Godden

User avatar
Helmut0815
Member
Posts: 919
Joined: 19 Sep 2010, 14:13
Location: Lower Saxony, Germany

Re: Rations - why bread?

#14

Post by Helmut0815 » 28 Jul 2018, 23:06

Sheldrake wrote:
25 Jun 2018, 02:04
The Germans were quite backward with their rations.Yes they had clever rations for alpine troops or U boat crews. But they had nothing like the composite rations that allowed detachment cooking. Even as late as the 1980s German armour would be visited by the Speiss in the field with his Gulasch Kannone.
In the 1980's all german soldiers were equipped with field rations (Einmannpackung /EPA), good for one or two days in the field, which consisted of two ready-to-eat meals, canned bread, Hartkeks ("Panzerplatten"), canned Wurst & cheese, instant coffee, powdered beverage and other useful items similar to the american MRE.
Of course the soldiers prefered a hot cooked meal from the Gulaschkanone, better for taste and morale. :milwink:


best regards


Helmut

User avatar
Cult Icon
Member
Posts: 4472
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 20:00

Re: Rations - why bread?

#15

Post by Cult Icon » 29 Jul 2018, 02:28

Forward00 wrote:
28 Jul 2018, 16:16
do you think if the meat allocation was increased, then the soldiers would be noticeably more muscle bound? The Germans that I see in pictures are all of an athletic/slender physique and look (in my opinion) better than some soldiers of today who are very big bulky guys.
the point is to have the strength to carry all their equipment AND march all day. The MG-34 is heavy and so is 1200 rounds of ammo.

Germans in the 1930s-40s were thin people.

Post Reply

Return to “German Strategy & General German Military Discussion”