Hitler's controversial order about Dunkirk

[ljadw]

And, if you had consulted a map, which you didn't, you would see that the places you are mentioning(Holques, St Pierre-Brouck,...) are SOUTH of Gravelines and thus farther away from Dunkirk .

[jesk]

What is more reliable ? The diary of the 1st Panzer Division or the post war memoirs of a defeated general, who said that everything was the fault of von Kluge ?

The answer is obvious .

Guderian accused Hitler. Link from Forum der Wehrmacht give, what is written in the diary.

And, if you had consulted a map, which you didn't, you would see that the places you are mentioning(Holques, St Pierre-Brouck,...) are SOUTH of Gravelines and thus farther away from Dunkirk .

Everything is close there. + - 10 km

[jesk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
The retreat was undertaken amid chaotic conditions, with abandoned vehicles blocking the roads and a flood of refugees heading in the opposite direction.[60][61] Due to wartime censorship and the desire to keep up British morale, the full extent of the unfolding disaster at Dunkirk was not initially publicised. A special service attended by King George VI was held in Westminster Abbey on 26 May, which was declared a national day of prayer.[62][63] The Archbishop of Canterbury led prayers "for our soldiers in dire peril in France". Similar prayers were offered in synagogues and churches throughout the UK that day, confirming to the public their suspicion of the desperate plight of the troops.[64] Just before 19:00 on 26 May, Churchill ordered Dynamo to begin, by which time 28,000 men had already departed.[29] Initial plans called for the recovery of 45,000 men from the BEF within two days, at which time German troops were expected to block further evacuation. Only 25,000 men escaped during this period, including 7,669 on the first day.

The British thought they had only 2 days to evacuate, they could evacuate 45,000 soldiers. In fact, everyone was evacuated. The last ships from Dunkirk left half empty. On May 26, Hitler changed the direction of the strike of infantry divisions of the Army Group "B". Attacked along the perimeter of the ledge to support panzer divisions. The diagram shows, instead of a breakthrough to the rear of Dunkirk, as flies clung to the southern extremity of the Allied front. On May 24, Hitler forbade a group of armies "A" to attack Dunkirk. May 26 the same order was received by the group "B".

operational situation May 28

[MarkN]

... the poorly informed garbage spewing forthwith deleted ...

Have a read of these. Well informed. Well researched. Well written.

The Dunkirk evacuation and the German ‘halt’ order
https://defenceindepth.co/2016/07/11/th ... alt-order/

Dunkirk: a miracle of war
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5902 ... f-war.html

[jesk]

... the poorly informed garbage spewing forthwith deleted ...

Have a read of these. Well informed. Well researched. Well written.

The Dunkirk evacuation and the German ‘halt’ order
https://defenceindepth.co/2016/07/11/th ... alt-order/

Dunkirk: a miracle of war
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5902 ... f-war.html

You do not think about what you read. Your worldview tells you that this is a myth about Hitler, who released the English. Found the information and discarded, read ... It is sometimes necessary to read all the same into the meaning written ..
And your links are spam, because they expose the "myth of Hitler and good generals." Already only therefore spam on which shouldn't pay attention.

[ljadw]

... the poorly informed garbage spewing forthwith deleted ...

Have a read of these. Well informed. Well researched. Well written.

The Dunkirk evacuation and the German ‘halt’ order
https://defenceindepth.co/2016/07/11/th ... alt-order/

Dunkirk: a miracle of war
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5902 ... f-war.html

Defence in depth makes two very big mistakes who could be avoided .

The first one is the assumption that Germany, a continental power, did not understand how the RN could evacuate the BEF .

This is an old and wrong platitude invented by some one shortly after the war and still parotted by a lot of historians who should know better .

The truth is that the Germans knew of the evacuation and that they tried to prevent it :in Weisung 13 it is clearly written that one of the missions of the LW was to prevent the evacuation of the BEF .

What was a problem for the Germans is that they did not know how many British forces were encircled . But they solved this by the following :

a) if there were only small forces encircled, no need to commit the PzD

b) if these forces were strong,the PzD would be unable to prevent the evacuation .

Second mistake is that most historians are unwilling to look on the map and prefer to believe the myths from Guderian and Liddell Hart : the fact is that on 24 may only units of ONE weak PzD were at a short distance of Dunkirk : between 15 and 31 km,and that this division( 1 Pz had )lost 55 % of its tanks . Two other divisions were tied at Calais and Bretagne ,this means that on 24 may Guderian was unable to do something serious ,which of
course was hurting his ego .
The 6 other PzD of AGA (which had 9 PzD ) were too far and also could not do anything serious .The ID of Bock were nearer to Dunkirk than the 6 PzD of Rundstedt . That's why the OKH decided to give them to Bock with the 4th Army of Kluge .

Finally , a hand-written order from Keitel to AGA on 22 may 1940 with as title : Wünsche des Führers

My translation :

1) The Motorised Divisions must be released as soon as possible by Infantry Divisions

2 ) The PzD also must be released by withdrawing them from defensive fighting and from the protection of the flanks.

3) (A repetition ) : only mot.divisions can advance on time in the pocket :they must be released from the protection of the flanks,support and release the PzD .

4 )The protection of the flanks in the nord has become more important .

5) The ID must go to the west as fast as possible ,at least their advance guard

6) For the moment no correction attacks,because these tie divisions and motorized artillery in the south .

Source : Hubatsch Hitlers Weisungen P 53 .
Correction attacks (German text is Korrektur-Angriffe ) would mean attacks to reconquer the lost territory at Arras .

The fundamental problem (which the Germans were unable to solve during the war and who reappeared a year later in Rrussia, with again, Guderian and Kluge) was that the PzD needed the support of the ID and as these could not advance as fast as the PzD, the PzD had to wait .
These 5 points indicate that Hitler knew the problems of AGA and knew that time was pressing and that everything depended on the timely arrival of the ID who were still far away from the front line .

[jesk]

Stage 3 rescue of British. Until May 31, all panzer divisions were withdrawn from the Dunkirk area. Part of the infantry was removed. After the surrender of the Belgian army, the Germans could take Dunkirk on May 29-30, but instead the troops were withdrawn to the reserve. On May 24,26,28, orders postponed the date of the German occupation of Dunkirk.



http://www.wwii-photos-maps.com/lagewes ... -1940.html

[jesk]

Second mistake is that most historians are unwilling to look on the map and prefer to believe the myths from Guderian and Liddell Hart : the fact is that on 24 may only units of ONE weak PzD were at a short distance of Dunkirk : between 15 and 31 km,and that this division( 1 Pz had )lost 55 % of its tanks . Two other divisions were tied at Calais and Bretagne ,this means that on 24 may Guderian was unable to do something serious ,which of
course was hurting his ego .
The 6 other PzD of AGA (which had 9 PzD ) were too far and also could not do anything serious .The ID of Bock were nearer to Dunkirk than the 6 PzD of Rundstedt . That's why the OKH decided to give them to Bock with the 4th Army of Kluge .

Six divisions were in the 3-4 hours of the march from the positions of the 1st Panzer Division. There were no problems except Hitler's orders.

[jesk]

http://militera.lib.ru/db/halder/app1.html#1078
{1078} By May 31, all tank formations had been withdrawn from the front of the 4th Army from near Dunkirk to prepare an offensive to the south of France. Completion of the defeat of the Dunkirk grouping of the Allies was entrusted to the 18th Army by the 9th, 10th and 26th Army Corps and the 14th Motorized Corps. She was ordered to economically use the forces and means, saving them for the forthcoming operation "Roth". - Note. Ed.

[ljadw]

After the surrender of the Belgian army, the Germans could take Dunkirk on May 29-30, but instead the troops were withdrawn to the reserve. l

Elementary mistake : The Belgian army was facing AGB (Bock ) and the units from Bock were not withdrawn to the reserve .

[ljadw]

Second mistake is that most historians are unwilling to look on the map and prefer to believe the myths from Guderian and Liddell Hart : the fact is that on 24 may only units of ONE weak PzD were at a short distance of Dunkirk : between 15 and 31 km,and that this division( 1 Pz had )lost 55 % of its tanks . Two other divisions were tied at Calais and Bretagne ,this means that on 24 may Guderian was unable to do something serious ,which of
course was hurting his ego .
The 6 other PzD of AGA (which had 9 PzD ) were too far and also could not do anything serious .The ID of Bock were nearer to Dunkirk than the 6 PzD of Rundstedt . That's why the OKH decided to give them to Bock with the 4th Army of Kluge .

Six divisions were in the 3-4 hours of the march from the positions of the 1st Panzer Division. There were no problems except Hitler's orders.

If you mean 6 PzD , this is not true , besides it is irrelevant : what was relevant is how far these divisions were from Dunkirk and IF they could advance .

[jesk]

After the surrender of the Belgian army, the Germans could take Dunkirk on May 29-30, but instead the troops were withdrawn to the reserve. l

Elementary mistake : The Belgian army was facing AGB (Bock ) and the units from Bock were not withdrawn to the reserve .

11 corps with four divisions withdrawn to the reserve.

May 31

[jesk]

Second mistake is that most historians are unwilling to look on the map and prefer to believe the myths from Guderian and Liddell Hart : the fact is that on 24 may only units of ONE weak PzD were at a short distance of Dunkirk : between 15 and 31 km,and that this division( 1 Pz had )lost 55 % of its tanks . Two other divisions were tied at Calais and Bretagne ,this means that on 24 may Guderian was unable to do something serious ,which of
course was hurting his ego .
The 6 other PzD of AGA (which had 9 PzD ) were too far and also could not do anything serious .The ID of Bock were nearer to Dunkirk than the 6 PzD of Rundstedt . That's why the OKH decided to give them to Bock with the 4th Army of Kluge .

Six divisions were in the 3-4 hours of the march from the positions of the 1st Panzer Division. There were no problems except Hitler's orders.

If you mean 6 PzD , this is not true , besides it is irrelevant : what was relevant is how far these divisions were from Dunkirk and IF they could advance .

All the tank divisions could easily advance to Dunkirk. On the march, the tank troops passed up to 150 kilometers a day.

[jesk]

https://defenceindepth.co/2016/07/11/th ... alt-order/

DR TIM BENBOW
On 23 May the Germans were closer to Dunkirk than most of the British Expeditionary Force; yet that evening, the Panzers were ordered to halt their advance. They were ordered to resume on 26 May but by then, the Allies had been gifted priceless time to retreat towards Dunkirk and to establish defences that would buy them further time.

My analysis is better than Dr. Benbow. On May 26 the Germans resumed their offensive, but not to Dunkirk, to the southern extremity of the front. On two sites, thereby spraying the forces for the convenience of enemy defense. Moreover, the Army Group "B" changed the angle of the offensive. Instead of a breakthrough to the north to the sea coast, attacks south to support the advance of tank divisions. This is a paradox, increasing the number of divisions in the offensive, the speed of approaching Dunkirk has fallen.

[Gorque]

... the poorly informed garbage spewing forthwith deleted ...

Have a read of these. Well informed. Well researched. Well written.

The Dunkirk evacuation and the German ‘halt’ order
https://defenceindepth.co/2016/07/11/th ... alt-order/

Dunkirk: a miracle of war
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5902 ... f-war.html

You do not think about what you read. Your worldview tells you that this is a myth about Hitler, who released the English. Found the information and discarded, read ... It is sometimes necessary to read all the same into the meaning written ..
And your links are spam, because they expose the "myth of Hitler and good generals." Already only therefore spam on which shouldn't pay attention.

In other words, your links, MarkN, are garbage, but any of my links that I publish can be trusted. So let's see, you've now graduated from "Moving of the Goal Posts" to "Dismissing of Others Links as Garbage". Interesting. :roll: