German desertors

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
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johnny_bi
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German desertors

Post by johnny_bi » 26 Nov 2002 09:52

Does anyone has any figure about the number of German desertors during WWII ? What happend to those who have deserted to Russians on Eastern Front ?

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Luca
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Post by Luca » 26 Nov 2002 11:19

I no have any informations but i want spend some words concern this topic.

Much was the executed during the great way back from the Ostfront but no necessery they was really desertors.
The situation no was clear, much fighters retired without write orders and if stopped for some controls, they can't demonstrate what exactly they are doing.....

My dad was in the encirclement of Danzic, he go to work every day running for a long way with 2 lines of trees at the 2 sides.
Every day a camion arrive, fix a cord to the tree and start to the next tree.
The street was around 2 miles long with a tree every 3 or 4 meters and every tree have he hang body cause was verboten take the body after the execution because he stay up for example.
Birds, sun and time ...with the time...make a really bad spectacle.
After long time the bodyes go down theyself.

When the situation in Danzic was catastrophic obvious the trees was without they sad fruits.

If i remember well ( i no know when) the low change, no was necessery process, and 2 Military policeman, 1 for action and 1 for witness can take a fighter, controll the documents, say 2 asks, decide that no was regolar situation, and shoot immediatly the fighter.

also...

Much fighters with right write orders that arrive in little groups was stopped (for example) by an officier with the help of 2 MPs that want make a unit for make some action.
When the goup is formed they go in action and when the action is finish (maybe some days after and in some long distance from the original way)
the survivors was released and can continue the way but at the next point control they write orders no corrispond with the location or the time of the fighters..so they was immediatly shooted as traitors.

The high burocracy system i think no was helpfull during the way back from the Ostfront, but is only a poor opinion.
Luca

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Rodrigo
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Post by Rodrigo » 26 Nov 2002 13:25

The soviets used differents persuasion and brainwashing techniques with the desertors. Most of them were used against his fellow countrymen, in order to pressed the POWs to signed documents against Hitler and Nazy Germany. Many german communist were living at the USSR before the war, and with the desertors, formed the firsts german-pro soviet military units, the infamous "Seydlitz Army". This unit fought against the SS french volunteers at Kolberg in 1945.

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johnny_bi
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Post by johnny_bi » 26 Nov 2002 14:57

Rodrigo , do you have more in formation about this "Seydlitz Army" ?

BI

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Birgitte Heuschkel
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Post by Birgitte Heuschkel » 26 Nov 2002 15:12

Well, Seydlitz was one of Paulus' staff officers who later fell from Communist grace.

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Rodrigo
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Post by Rodrigo » 26 Nov 2002 16:22

Read this text from Jason Pipes:

http://www.feldgrau.com/nkfd-bdo.html

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Bill Medland
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Post by Bill Medland » 26 Nov 2002 17:56

Deserters in the German Forces,i.e. Army,Air Force, Navy and Waffen-SS, were a total of 11 thousand.
Consider the total size ot the German armed forces in world war two, and we are looking at the amount of men that would fill a weak infantry division, so not a lot really.
regards,Bill.

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 26 Nov 2002 18:27

Bill Medland wrote:Deserters in the German Forces,i.e. Army,Air Force, Navy and Waffen-SS, were a total of 11 thousand.
Well, at least 16,000 were executed for desertion, IIRC.

But if you consider that the Field Police often overdid their job and brought people in for desertion because they had lost their marching papers or on account of other trivialities, you may nevertheless be right in regard to the number of real deserters.

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mw747
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dsertors

Post by mw747 » 01 Dec 2002 13:07

during end of summer 44,two young soldiers of the wehrmacht,decided to deserted,in regards of the war evolution.
so,one day near the meuse river,in baroncourt,exactly,they left their regiment.the next day they came into the village as surrenders.
at this time the population immediately executed them! certainly proud to have germans soldiers(they maybe were 16 years old!).
so,that was the fate of two germans desertors,that was also a crime against humanity,and so war criminals.
vae victis! :idea: [/img]

Michael Plomer
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Post by Michael Plomer » 02 Dec 2002 06:37

In WW2, official German army records say that approx. 20,000 men were executed up until November 1944. For the last six months of the war, it is estimated a further 7000 were killed in this manner.
Compare this to 42 german soldiers that were executed for desertion during WW1.
The americans executed only one soldier during WW2... his name was Private Eddie Slovik. He ran away from battle during the Ardennes Offensive.

haoster
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Military justice?

Post by haoster » 22 Dec 2002 09:05

I agree with the last figure given by Michael, as it agrees with roughly 25,000 from my reading. This is enough to equip a couple of divisions, but, of course, there were even greater living tragedies. For example, the 175,000 Luftwaffe that Manstein lamented were sent, largely untrained to the front as a stopgap after Stalingrad.

Of course, no one knows how many the Red Army executed. Stalin ordered blocking batallions to prevent retreat, and by 1942, every Red Army soldier knew that his family faced deportation or worse, if he surrendered. There was no consideration for the Geneva Convention, which Russia never signed, and the Hague convention had never been ratified by Stalin.

POW's? What status does a Russian factory worker have if he charges a German line with a pitchfork wearing only his factory uniform? Or a partisan behind the lines with an explosive device? The brutality could only escalate in the setting of total war.

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Rodrigo
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Post by Rodrigo » 22 Dec 2002 18:39

The americans executed only one soldier during WW2...
Slovik was the only one soldier executed for DESERTION. Many others american soldiers were executed during the war for diferents crimes (rape, assault, etc...)
At the Oise-Aisne American Cemetery and Memorial in France, a cemetery from the First World War, were secretly buried during the war 94 american soldiers executed for his crimes, among them the famous Private Eddie Slovik.

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Eddie Slovik

Post by Panzerrat » 23 Dec 2002 20:36

Wasn't Eddie Slovik executed for cowardis in the face of the enemy at Hertigan forest North of The Ardennes & about 2 months before the Battle or was that another American Soldier?

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Suicide amongst the Wehrmact on the East Front

Post by Panzerrat » 23 Dec 2002 20:42

Ok i think it is fair to say that from everybodies imput that we have a reasonable estimate for Desertions & excutions......
Does anybody have figures on the amount of Suicides amongst the Landser fighting on the Eastern front?......particularly during the first winter....

wotan
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Post by wotan » 24 Dec 2002 14:43

Deserters in the GER army in the east was not so common as one would excpect. One reason for this was that the germans knew what would happend to their country if they lost so they fough on regardless of the hopeless situation. You never so the collaps that happened in 1918.

On the western front deserters was more common.

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