origin of the word LANDSER?

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coldam
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origin of the word LANDSER?

Post by coldam » 09 Jan 2003 03:21

Landser I think is/was the German word for footsoldier.
sort of like 'grunt'

Was the word in use before WW2?

Does it perhaps go back to 'Landsknecht'?

That was the name for a mercenary
before, during and after
the 30-years war (1618 to 1648)

...peter

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Landser
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Re: origin of the word LANDSER?

Post by Landser » 09 Jan 2003 03:56

coldam wrote:Landser I think is/was the German word for footsoldier.
sort of like 'grunt'

Was the word in use before WW2?

Does it perhaps go back to 'Landsknecht'?

That was the name for a mercenary
before, during and after
the 30-years war (1618 to 1648)

...peter



I yes you just wanted confirmation
since you had it figured out yourself.

Landser=Landsknecht

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Post by Nagelfar » 09 Jan 2003 04:18

could it be at all possible that "ser" is an etymological cognant from Old High German to the english "Sir"? (being that Knecht is as such to Knight)?

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Post by Zapfenstreich » 09 Jan 2003 06:34

Nagelfar wrote:could it be at all possible that "ser" is an etymological cognant from Old High German to the english "Sir"? (being that Knecht is as such to Knight)?
A few comments:

Landsknecht is not a mercenary. There is no English equivalent. The literal meaning is "servant of the land". They were in service to a particular Lord or region but were not mercenaries.

Ritter = Knight
Knecht (possibly related to the English word, Knave) = Servant

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Z

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Post by Nagelfar » 09 Jan 2003 07:08

yes, but 'Knave' & 'Knight' have the same root. just as Ritter & Rider are cognants, rather than Ritter & Knight. (i.e. Knight itself comes originally from the meaning 'young man', 'page' etc.) as opposed to the modern meaning that words have taken on.

coldam
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Post by coldam » 09 Jan 2003 20:12

Hi Z,

A 'Landsknecht' definetely was a mercenary

we learned about them in school.

try google

some of the marching songs
used in WW2 still had Landsknechte in them.

A regular Knecht is one, as you say, who works the fields
for his master.
In our village most of the male non-landowners hired out
as Knecht

the easy virtue women who kept company with the Landsknechte
were called:
Marketenderinnen.

I don't know about -ser and Sir

Was 'Landser' in use before WW2?


...peter

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Post by FL Jim » 11 Jan 2003 02:26

Zapfenstreich wrote:
Nagelfar wrote:could it be at all possible that "ser" is an etymological cognant from Old High German to the english "Sir"? (being that Knecht is as such to Knight)?
A few comments:

Landsknecht is not a mercenary. There is no English equivalent. The literal meaning is "servant of the land". They were in service to a particular Lord or region but were not mercenaries.

Ritter = Knight
Knecht (possibly related to the English word, Knave) = Servant

Best regards
Z
Allow me to clarify some of your etymological questions.

Knecht is a cognate of the English knight which is derived from the Anglo-Saxon (Old English) cniht (Pronounced almost like the modern German word). Knave is a cognate of the modern German Knabe (boy).

As for the English word "sir," that came into English courtesy of the French speaking Norman conquerors. Sir and the second syllable of the French monsieur both come from Seigneur.

If William the Conqueror had stayed home, modern English would be far closer to Dutch and German and a lot easier to spell.

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Post by Karl da Kraut » 13 Jan 2003 18:19

In Middle High German, "Knecht" originally meant "Knappe" (squire), NOT "Ritter"/"knight", thoguh "knight" and "Knecht" have the same etymological roots. A squire was, of course, a man (normally of noble birth) in the personal service of a knight, thus being in a subaltern position. Later on, this aspect transformed the meaning of "Knecht" into someone having to obey orders of a lord/master, and, for example, unskilled farming laborers were called "Knechte" Therefore I think "Landsknecht" is best translated as "Servants of the land/state".
The "Landsknecht" fought in the service of a "Landesherr" (a more or less independent "territorial lord"). The term "Landsknecht" was first used for mercenaries of emperor Maximilian I. (ca. 1500, 1486 if I'm not mistaken) and disappeared with the advent of regular armires.
Though, historically seen, not every "Landsknecht" really was a mercenary, the term somehow developed a meaning that implies "mercenary".

@ coldam

"Marketenderin" doesn't necessarily imply what you so carefully hint at. Actually the term means "tradeswoman". These tradesmen/-women were quite important in a time when armies basically had to live off the land.

I think "Landser" was already used in WWI.

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observer
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Re: origin of the word LANDSER

Post by observer » 14 Jan 2003 14:38

coldam wrote:Landser I think is/was the German word for footsoldier.
sort of like 'grunt'
At least in wwii (and probably in wwi ?) it was used as a collective term for all "other ranks" (not officers, not NCO´s) in the German Heer.

In a more figurative sense, the term "Landser" depicts the normal (front) soldier, so this term would be comparable to the French poilu.

In proper modern language the term is avoided today (at least in Germany) as it is preferably used by violent extreme rightist groups as a code word.

Does it perhaps go back to 'Landsknecht'?
Definite answer: yes!

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