Top 20 Hitler Mistakes! Missing Any-Your View? In-order of m

[MrApLewis85]

0, Not throwing every available resource into the production of Nuclear weapons. Only the fear of a Nuclear Holocaust would have made the Allies think again when agreeing to accept an only unconditional surrender of Germany.

1, Attacking Russia- Could never have won for sure no matter what; in the spring of 41: even if Moscow was captured.

2, Declaring War on America- He should have done everything possible to fall stall this even if cancelling alliance with Japan.

3, Not finishing off England-even if the country could not be invaded straight away; their Empire was vulnerable.

4, Not gearing up for total war-didn’t happen totally until 1943

5, Not to simplify German arms production-should have done the same thing as the Soviets: few model/designs, which are then mass produced

6, Alienating the people of Europe- especially Ukrainian and Russian people who would have been more willing to assist the Nazi’s.

7, Initiating the Holocaust- truly evil and shameful-all these millions may have worked willingly if promised Palestine after the war even if there was no real
choice at the end of the day.

8, Lack of long range heavy bomber- to hit targets beyond the Urals

9, Not adapting Jet fighters as soon as possible- namely the ME 262

10, The continuation of the “Hold all territory” policy after the winter of 41/42

11, Failure to produce enough Submarines-only a few dozen if not less were operational at the start of the war

12, Lack of foresight for the need of winter clothing in the winter of 41/42

13, Having a limited number of SS or WSS divisions. Most of these divisions when given the opportunity fought beyond comparison and were ideologically suited for the Eastern front. Imagine if a whole SS Army group had been available in 41, only a Panzer group of 3 SS divisions came into beginning in 43.

14, Not making Speer the head of armaments earlier; a gifted man who used civilian specialists to achieve the seemingly impossible.

15, Not moving vital production plants beyond the reach of Allied Bombers

16, Allowing German Armies to be encircled and thus destroyed; Stalingrad, Crimea, Tunisia, Falase, Army group centre 44, 6th Army Romania 44, etc

17, Being so arrogant as not to consider that their coding system was unbreakable; as we now know the English had cracked their Enigma machine.

18, Not giving the dessert armies enough resources for outright victory-complete control over the Med would have been a huge tactical victory for Germany. English shipping would have to go all the way around Africa; and thus long range subs could have caused high shipping losses as was the case in the artic sea!

19, Allowing/Relying on European Allied Armies.-Should disbanded all of them and forced those who wanted a military career to join the SS or Wehrmacht. (Again if the National Socialist ideology wasn’t made so perverse in German hands it could have been a unity factor).

20, Not agreeing beforehand that Japan was not the attack USA but Russia or continue their quest for British Territories- since they did not do so the English held on to India, the Russians were able to transport a whole army to the Eastern front in 41, and the USA entered the war.

There are loads of other mistakes Hitler made but here is the top 20! What you think?

[Von Schadewald]

Uncharcteristically sleeping-in late on the morning of 6 June 1944.

[MrApLewis85]

I think even if Germany did everything right on the day nothing could have stopped Allied Numerical power; even if the landings failed, would the ones in Southern France failed, and by this stage could anything have stopped the Russians? Doubt it!

[Boby]

Okay, now source it. The majority are pure myths.

[MrApLewis85]

Really? What show charts that compare Allied war production with Germany's, or the age of recruits (From 1944), available oil, territory under control, or how Hitler’s decisions at the time were increasing leading to slaughter? I don’t think it’s necessary to argue how or if certain battles were better handle it would have lead to anything different for Germany; it would have only prolonged the war. I have tried to use points that would have shaped the overall position for Germany and not specific battles or operations.

[Nebfer]

0, Not throwing every available resource into the production of Nuclear weapons. Only the fear of a Nuclear Holocaust would have made the Allies think again when agreeing to accept an only unconditional surrender of Germany.

Well nukes would of been nice....

1, Attacking Russia- Could never have won for sure no matter what; in the spring of 41: even if Moscow was captured.

well that is truly a mistake, though IIRC it was inevitable in any event.

2, Declaring War on America- He should have done everything possible to fall stall this even if cancelling alliance with Japan.

True though I think it's fair to say that it was inevitable.

3, Not finishing off England-even if the country could not be invaded straight away; their Empire was vulnerable.

Well they had the army and airforce to do it but the navy could not get them there. You need two things, the Airforce needs to be able to perform Anti-shipping strikes and, this was something they did not have in real life (IIRC they where only starting to do this in 1940). Second is you need a strong enough navy to get them to England, which it was not. IIRC they had in real life about 5 capital armed ships, half a dozen cruisers and about 30 destroyers and next to no landing craft. A big problem...

4, Not gearing up for total war-didn’t happen totally until 1943

Read Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze
Germany was practically already at a wartime footing in 1941 or earlier, though It's possible that it could of done better, but there was not much more slack to give. IIRC And a lot of the factories in 1944 that gave out the "numbers needed" did not exist in 1941. Also IIRC Germanys factories where small compared to allied factories, IIRC the largest factory was only able to hold ~50 Panthers at one time, roughly half that in shermans...

5, Not to simplify German arms production-should have done the same thing as the Soviets: few model/designs, which are then mass produced

This would of helped a bit, like just consentrate on a modified panzer III insted of both the III and IV could of helped speed up production. Perhaps addopting a US style assembly line would of helped as well.

6, Alienating the people of Europe- especially Ukrainian and Russian people who would have been more willing to assist the Nazi’s.

would of been usefull.

8, Lack of long range heavy bomber- to hit targets beyond the Urals

They did have the He-177 but by the time it was ready it was to late realy.

9, Not adapting Jet fighters as soon as possible- namely the ME 262

How about the He 280? It could of been in production by early 1942 if the High command was more Interested in it. Also IIRC the 262 had problems with it's power plants so it's not gona be easy to get it into service before it did.

11, Failure to produce enough Submarines-only a few dozen if not less were operational at the start of the war

Well they did build a lot of them, though most of them when it did not realy matter...

12, Lack of foresight for the need of winter clothing in the winter of 41/42

True though I have heard that it was one of three things, and had to forgo the other two...

13, Having a limited number of SS or WSS divisions. Most of these divisions when given the opportunity fought beyond comparison and were ideologically suited for the Eastern front. Imagine if a whole SS Army group had been available in 41, only a Panzer group of 3 SS divisions came into beginning in 43.

No the SS are vastly over rated. the first few are good but like 4/5ths of them where little better than reguler army units. I think the WSS should of been disbanded in it's entierty. Along with the Airforce field units...

15, Not moving vital production plants beyond the reach of Allied Bombers

Where exactly are you gona put them? Allied bombers could reach just about any were.

16, Allowing German Armies to be encircled and thus destroyed; Stalingrad, Crimea, Tunisia, Falase, Army group centre 44, 6th Army Romania 44, etc

Some of them can be blamed on him but others can not..

17, Being so arrogant as not to consider that their coding system was unbreakable; as we now know the English had cracked their Enigma machine.

Well yeah it would of helped a bit if they figured that out...

18, Not giving the dessert armies enough resources for outright victory-complete control over the Med would have been a huge tactical victory for Germany. English shipping would have to go all the way around Africa; and thus long range subs could have caused high shipping losses as was the case in the artic sea!

This can not be helped, the ports they had could not handle much more in the way of cargo. The only real way to improve it was to get a rail road there insted of trucks...

19, Allowing/Relying on European Allied Armies.-Should disbanded all of them and forced those who wanted a military career to join the SS or Wehrmacht. (Again if the National Socialist ideology wasn’t made so perverse in German hands it could have been a unity factor).

There where very usefull to germany even though they where not all that good. I would of used them more for second line dutys.

20, Not agreeing beforehand that Japan was not the attack USA but Russia or continue their quest for British Territories- since they did not do so the English held on to India, the Russians were able to transport a whole army to the Eastern front in 41, and the USA entered the war.

Japan had no real intention to mess with russia at this point, the last time they did that they got schooled.

[mescal]

Well, this thread is perhaps not in the most appropriate section, and most of the points have already been adressed.
However, here are my two cents :

0, Not throwing every available resource into the production of Nuclear weapons. Only the fear of a Nuclear Holocaust would have made the Allies think again when agreeing to accept an only unconditional surrender of Germany.

You never put "every available resource" on only one research project that may never have any useful application.

1, Attacking Russia- Could never have won for sure no matter what; in the spring of 41: even if Moscow was captured.

Attacking Russia in 1941 was probably not a mistake. In 1942, the Red Army would have been stronger. And not attacking Russia at all would let a threat on the Eastern flank (without going as far as Icebreaker-like theory, there is little doubt that Stalin would have seized any opportunity to attack West from 1942 on)

2, Declaring War on America- He should have done everything possible to fall stall this even if cancelling alliance with Japan.

That's a mistake, but one way or the other (most probably another Reuben James affair), USA and Germany would soon have been at war.

3, Not finishing off England-even if the country could not be invaded straight away; their Empire was vulnerable.

How do you "finish off England" ? And which part of the Empire is vulnerable ? Canada ? Australia ? India ?

4, Not gearing up for total war-didn’t happen totally until 1943

cf. Nebfer's post above, or this : http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 6&t=147250

5, Not to simplify German arms production-should have done the same thing as the Soviets: few model/designs, which are then mass produced

OK. However, Guderian & Speer did quite a good job at standardizing the Panzer production from 1943.

6, Alienating the people of Europe- especially Ukrainian and Russian people who would have been more willing to assist the Nazi’s.
7, Initiating the Holocaust- truly evil and shameful-all these millions may have worked willingly if promised Palestine after the war even if there was no real
choice at the end of the day.

That imply that there was no racial superiority bias in Nazi thinking -- and making this assumptions leads to something comlpetely different than ww2.

8, Lack of long range heavy bomber- to hit targets beyond the Urals

No. A strategic bomber force was not sutainable by Germany (limited POL supply), and developing it would thus have been a mistake.

9, Not adapting Jet fighters as soon as possible- namely the ME 262

(no idea on this one)

10, The continuation of the “Hold all territory” policy after the winter of 41/42

True, but the problem is far more complex than a one-line summary.

11, Failure to produce enough Submarines-only a few dozen if not less were operational at the start of the war

Where do you find resources to do this ? What other program do you cut ? And increasing submarine production before the war would have led to more investment in anti-submarine defense in UK and France.

12, Lack of foresight for the need of winter clothing in the winter of 41/42

Actually, had the winter clothing been available, there was no way the logistic resources could have brought them to the front line.

13, Having a limited number of SS or WSS divisions. Most of these divisions when given the opportunity fought beyond comparison and were ideologically suited for the Eastern front. Imagine if a whole SS Army group had been available in 41, only a Panzer group of 3 SS divisions came into beginning in 43.

cf. above. Globally, Waffen SS division were not better than Heer divisions.

14, Not making Speer the head of armaments earlier; a gifted man who used civilian specialists to achieve the seemingly impossible.

OK.

15, Not moving vital production plants beyond the reach of Allied Bombers

This would lead to both a gap in production during the transfer and a huge expenditure of transport resources badly needed elsewhere.

16, Allowing German Armies to be encircled and thus destroyed; Stalingrad, Crimea, Tunisia, Falase, Army group centre 44, 6th Army Romania 44, etc

More or less true, but once again, far too complicated matter to sum up in one sentence.

17, Being so arrogant as not to consider that their coding system was unbreakable; as we now know the English had cracked their Enigma machine.

He was not the only one ...

18, Not giving the dessert armies enough resources for outright victory-complete control over the Med would have been a huge tactical victory for Germany. English shipping would have to go all the way around Africa; and thus long range subs could have caused high shipping losses as was the case in the artic sea!

It's far from obvious that Rommel would ever have been able to achieve "complete control" of the Eastern Med.

19, Allowing/Relying on European Allied Armies.-Should disbanded all of them and forced those who wanted a military career to join the SS or Wehrmacht. (Again if the National Socialist ideology wasn’t made so perverse in German hands it could have been a unity factor).

A bit difficult politically.

20, Not agreeing beforehand that Japan was not the attack USA but Russia or continue their quest for British Territories- since they did not do so the English held on to India, the Russians were able to transport a whole army to the Eastern front in 41, and the USA entered the war.

Hitler had not his word in Japanese strategy making.

[garlock]

Appointing Borman and not allowing Goebbells more influence on war policy.

John

[Sgt. Saunders]

Top 20 Hitler mistakes- I'm throing this together:
1. Moving to Germany.
2. Spying on the German Workers Party.
3. Initiating the Beer Hall Putsch.
4. Creating the "If you're German or Aryan, your IN- if you're not, you're OUT- and if you're Jewish or Slav, you're ALL THE WAY OUT" mindset in the German people- also known as the "In-Out Group" effect.
5. Appointing Hermann Göring as C-In-C of the Luftwaffe.
6. Allowing construction of surface capital ships for the navy- and not allowing the Navy it's own air arm.
7. Appointing Keitel
8. Thinking he had a window of opportunity and initiating war in 1939.
9. Allowing the B.E.F. and nearby French troops to be evacuated at Dunkirk in 1940.
10. Passing up on the Mediterranean Strategy advocated by Raeder in 1940 after the fall of France.
11. Attacking the Soviet Union.
12. Declaring war on the United States (His biggest mistake).
13. Authorizing construction of the vengeance weapons (V 1 and V 2).
14. Not constructing the "Wasserfall" A.A. missile.
15. Disallowing a flexible German defense in 1941 that allowed withdrawals.
16. Dismissing Guderian.
17. Not allowing top priority to the Me 262 as a fighter.
18. Attacking Kursk.
19. Sleeping late on 6 June 44.
20. Not trying to escape to Argentina

[LWD]

...

0, Not throwing every available resource into the production of Nuclear weapons. Only the fear of a Nuclear Holocaust would have made the Allies think again when agreeing to accept an only unconditional surrender of Germany.

You never put "every available resource" on only one research project that may never have any useful application.
....

Well if by mistake one means that the alternative was a mutch better outcome for Germany I think this qualifies. Had he done so the rest of the military would have been much weaker and the result almost assuredly a collapse of the Nazi governement and no war. Since Germany was on the wrong track and didn't have near the resources that the US put into the project the odds are pretty good nothing would have come of it so everyone is better off. Of course one can come up with similar but more efficient ways to acomplish the same thing. Disbanding the Nazi party in say 32 would be even better.

[Boby]

Atomic bomb project was killed in June 1942 by Speer and the Heereswaffenamt.

[justdesserts]

This list alone condemns the Nazi philosophy. Nazi arrogance made defeat inevitable. With so many critical war losing mistakes one might suspect that God Almighty blinded Nazi Germany to any winning strategy. Some of these moves were so brain dead that it is hard to think of any other explanation.

0, Not throwing every available resource into the production of Nuclear weapons. Only the fear of a Nuclear Holocaust would have made the Allies think again when agreeing to accept an only unconditional surrender of Germany.

1, Attacking Russia- Could never have won for sure no matter what; in the spring of 41: even if Moscow was captured.

2, Declaring War on America- He should have done everything possible to fall stall this even if cancelling alliance with Japan.

3, Not finishing off England-even if the country could not be invaded straight away; their Empire was vulnerable.

4, Not gearing up for total war-didn’t happen totally until 1943

5, Not to simplify German arms production-should have done the same thing as the Soviets: few model/designs, which are then mass produced

6, Alienating the people of Europe- especially Ukrainian and Russian people who would have been more willing to assist the Nazi’s.

7, Initiating the Holocaust- truly evil and shameful-all these millions may have worked willingly if promised Palestine after the war even if there was no real
choice at the end of the day.

8, Lack of long range heavy bomber- to hit targets beyond the Urals

9, Not adapting Jet fighters as soon as possible- namely the ME 262

10, The continuation of the “Hold all territory” policy after the winter of 41/42

11, Failure to produce enough Submarines-only a few dozen if not less were operational at the start of the war

12, Lack of foresight for the need of winter clothing in the winter of 41/42

13, Having a limited number of SS or WSS divisions. Most of these divisions when given the opportunity fought beyond comparison and were ideologically suited for the Eastern front. Imagine if a whole SS Army group had been available in 41, only a Panzer group of 3 SS divisions came into beginning in 43.

14, Not making Speer the head of armaments earlier; a gifted man who used civilian specialists to achieve the seemingly impossible.

15, Not moving vital production plants beyond the reach of Allied Bombers

16, Allowing German Armies to be encircled and thus destroyed; Stalingrad, Crimea, Tunisia, Falase, Army group centre 44, 6th Army Romania 44, etc

17, Being so arrogant as not to consider that their coding system was unbreakable; as we now know the English had cracked their Enigma machine.

18, Not giving the dessert armies enough resources for outright victory-complete control over the Med would have been a huge tactical victory for Germany. English shipping would have to go all the way around Africa; and thus long range subs could have caused high shipping losses as was the case in the artic sea!

19, Allowing/Relying on European Allied Armies.-Should disbanded all of them and forced those who wanted a military career to join the SS or Wehrmacht. (Again if the National Socialist ideology wasn’t made so perverse in German hands it could have been a unity factor).

20, Not agreeing beforehand that Japan was not the attack USA but Russia or continue their quest for British Territories- since they did not do so the English held on to India, the Russians were able to transport a whole army to the Eastern front in 41, and the USA entered the war.

There are loads of other mistakes Hitler made but here is the top 20! What you think?

[justdesserts]

Really? What show charts that compare Allied war production with Germany's, or the age of recruits (From 1944), available oil, territory under control, or how Hitler’s decisions at the time were increasing leading to slaughter? I don’t think it’s necessary to argue how or if certain battles were better handle it would have lead to anything different for Germany; it would have only prolonged the war. I have tried to use points that would have shaped the overall position for Germany and not specific battles or operations.

Both Britain and the USSR topped Germany's war production. In 1942 the United States had more than 300% of German war production. By the end of the war the Allies were out doing Germany's war production by 400% in almost every category.

The Soviet Union produced more military aircraft and more tanks than Germany.

Military aircraft of all types
United States = 324,750
United Kingdom = 131,549
Soviet Union = 157,261
Germany = 119,307

Tanks and self-propelled guns
Soviet T-34
Soviet Union = 105,251 (92,595)
United States = 88,410 (71,067)
Germany = 46,857 (37,794)
United Kingdom = 27,896
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_p ... _all_types

Nazi Germany's biggest mistake was thinking that they had a prayer of winning a war against the Allies.

[MrApLewis85]

How do I create a new post?

[Mauser K98k]

18, Not giving the desert armies enough resources for outright victory-complete control over the Med would have been a huge tactical victory for Germany. English shipping would have to go all the way around Africa; and thus long range subs could have caused high shipping losses as was the case in the artic sea!

IMO Hitler's mistake here was sending forces to Africa in the first place.

Rommel, The Afrika Korps and all that goes with them (and all that was lost trying to support them) could have been put to much better use in Barbarossa rather than trying to rescue a failed Italian adventure on another continent. Considering the needs in Russia there was never any good way to get enough men and supplies into North Africa to defeat the Brits considering also the lack of Luftwaffe air superiority over the Eastern Med. To try to send supplies via Tripoli all the way to Egypt was counterproductive.

Even if everything would have gone perfectly for the Afrika Korps and the Brits had been defeated in Egypt and lost the Suez Canal, beyond being a humiliating blow to English morale I doubt it would have had any bearing on the ultimate outcome of the war.