German troops to suffer twice in Russian winter

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 04 Feb 2003 12:23

Even as the weather were untolerable cold, the SS regiment Der Fuhrer fought heroically during the battle of Moscow..Out of more than 2,000 men, left 28 men only....

Despite the coldest winter, Germans extraordinarily endure all there is...

ISU-152
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Post by ISU-152 » 04 Feb 2003 12:33

2 Panzermahn

:roll: So what happened to Panzerbunker? :roll: Getting cold there or was it overrun by bolshevik tanks? :lol:

Anyway congratulations on your promotion to Supreme Panzer Headquarters. :D Say hello to Guderian and other volks. :lol: :lol:


best regards,
Sergei

Panzermahn
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Post by Panzermahn » 04 Feb 2003 12:53

Yeah, thanks..I recently been promoted to General Staff...

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FormerSoldier
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Post by FormerSoldier » 04 Feb 2003 16:40

panzermahn,

while I agree that G. Heinrici was a superb commander, I have to acknoledge that the defense of Stalingrad General V. Chuikov takes the prise of the greatest defense in WWII.

Moscow only went the way it did because the timing was wrong.. Read my arguements on the other thread (vote for the greatest german generals) to see what I refer to. Moscow was Hitler's single greatest mistake.

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FormerSoldier
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Post by FormerSoldier » 04 Feb 2003 16:50

Benoit Douville wrote:Sergei,

It was over confidence by the Germans. Hitler said before operation Barbarossa that he will take the Soviet Union in 6 weeks! Qvist pointed out that the troops did not suffered from lack of winter clothing and i agree and it's still a myth today.

Regards
Go here and read how he almost did it...

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/para ... hooker.htm

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 04 Feb 2003 16:53

Wasn't the Red Army more adapted for winter warfare? It's their land and they know the climate best.
a warm soldier is good soldier :)

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FormerSoldier
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Post by FormerSoldier » 04 Feb 2003 17:00

LILLEBROR wrote:Wasn't the Red Army more adapted for winter warfare? It's their land and they know the climate best.
a warm soldier is good soldier :)
re-read my post above about the cold weather paralyzing both the Germans and Russians inside the battered buildings of Stalingrad... But yes, the German's had intended for the whole thing to be over by end of Summer, and were left with lack of proper clothing, so they had a disadvantage over their Russian counterparts. And if anyone doesn't think that this is a major disadvantage, then they never spent time in the military and in the field during winter.

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Madsen
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Post by Madsen » 04 Feb 2003 17:14

I know how winter feel like :D
during my time up in Fimmark in a infantery battalion i got several injuries by the winter, mostly my fingers and face got it in -40 degrees C.
but when i see pictures from east i often see Red army in white and germans in their normal uniforms.

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FormerSoldier
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Post by FormerSoldier » 04 Feb 2003 23:45

LILLEBROR wrote:I know how winter feel like :D
during my time up in Fimmark in a infantery battalion i got several injuries by the winter, mostly my fingers and face got it in -40 degrees C.
but when i see pictures from east i often see Red army in white and germans in their normal uniforms.
Glad to hear it.... because it has been my observation on this forum that there are a lot of opinions about the military and military forces in operations by people who've never set foot in a pair of general issue boots. :?

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Napoli
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Post by Napoli » 05 Feb 2003 00:29

LILLEBROR wrote:I know how winter feel like :D
during my time up in Fimmark in a infantery battalion i got several injuries by the winter, mostly my fingers and face got it in -40 degrees C.
but when i see pictures from east i often see Red army in white and germans in their normal uniforms.
If you where here yesterday, it was 40 degree's Celcious :lol: :lol: Christ, the coldest day I've ever seen is 10 degree's, dont want to know what -40 looks like 8O

CHRISCHA
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Non-military

Post by CHRISCHA » 05 Feb 2003 00:37

Right, unless you have served in the military you should no longer have an opinion on military history? Or perhaps unless you served in the German army during WW2 you should not voice an opinion on this subject? I don't think this would be a very popular site then.

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FormerSoldier
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Re: Non-military

Post by FormerSoldier » 05 Feb 2003 06:22

CHRISCHA wrote:Right, unless you have served in the military you should no longer have an opinion on military history? Or perhaps unless you served in the German army during WW2 you should not voice an opinion on this subject? I don't think this would be a very popular site then.
No, you can have your opinion, just realize that it's only that.... an opinion, and not dogma the way some here talk. The comment wasn't aimed at you, however if the boot fits....

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Qvist
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Post by Qvist » 05 Feb 2003 10:51

Well, I spent 12 months as a rifleman in the Norwegian army, does that count? :D

Come on - what we're discussing here is mostly things that go way beyond the personal experience of any present-day soldier. I don't really see how that experience puts you in a different category with regard to understanding WWII. Nor do I see people with military backgrounds generally offering more qualified viewpoints than other people - they're as much armchair strategists as anybody else.

cheers

ISU-152
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Post by ISU-152 » 05 Feb 2003 16:43

FormerSoldier wrote:
LILLEBROR wrote:I know how winter feel like :D
during my time up in Fimmark in a infantery battalion i got several injuries by the winter, mostly my fingers and face got it in -40 degrees C.
but when i see pictures from east i often see Red army in white and germans in their normal uniforms.
Glad to hear it.... because it has been my observation on this forum that there are a lot of opinions about the military and military forces in operations by people who've never set foot in a pair of general issue boots. :?
Are you referring to me? :D I've spent 1.5 years stomping snow and have a rank of junior lieutenant of reserve. And I know what it is like to stand at night shift with -30C. The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka, although I don't drink in civil life.
Therefore I can imagine the stupidity of german command which left their troops exposed to winter without proper clothing and thus made them suffer for two years in a row.

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Fred
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Post by Fred » 05 Feb 2003 16:53

The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka
8O 8O That is just about the most stupid thing to do when you are exposed to extreme weather.

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