German troops to suffer twice in Russian winter

[ISU-152]

The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka

That is just about the most stupid thing to do when you are exposed to extreme weather.

I know that while you drink your body losses heat instead of acquiring it but you feel better nevertheless.

[FormerSoldier]

Well, I spent 12 months as a rifleman in the Norwegian army, does that count?

Come on - what we're discussing here is mostly things that go way beyond the personal experience of any present-day soldier. I don't really see how that experience puts you in a different category with regard to understanding WWII. Nor do I see people with military backgrounds generally offering more qualified viewpoints than other people - they're as much armchair strategists as anybody else.

cheers

I respectfully, and unequivocally disagree. Sorry.

..and yes, your 1 year adds volumes to your credibility(I say this without knowing anything about the quality of your training).

[FormerSoldier]

I know how winter feel like
during my time up in Fimmark in a infantery battalion i got several injuries by the winter, mostly my fingers and face got it in -40 degrees C.
but when i see pictures from east i often see Red army in white and germans in their normal uniforms.

Glad to hear it.... because it has been my observation on this forum that there are a lot of opinions about the military and military forces in operations by people who've never set foot in a pair of general issue boots.

Are you referring to me? I've spent 1.5 years stomping snow and have a rank of junior lieutenant of reserve. And I know what it is like to stand at night shift with -30C. The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka, although I don't drink in civil life.
Therefore I can imagine the stupidity of german command which left their troops exposed to winter without proper clothing and thus made them suffer for two years in a row.

You make my point... "Stupidity of german command"... is a statement much easier to make when you've been in the boots of the soldiers... and that's as close as you can get.... 1.5 years (I imagine non-cumulative) in Russian winter warfare maneuvers. Sure you can interview the various German vets about it too, but most of us on these boards didn't have the benefit of doing so.

So No Sergei, not you nor Oleg(I don't even know if he served), I read a lot of stuff on this board (and on many other military boards). I obviously don't engage everyone in debate (frankly most of them aren't worth joining), but I listen to a lot of BS.. and I just choose to accept it as free speech, nothing more.

[FormerSoldier]

The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka

That is just about the most stupid thing to do when you are exposed to extreme weather.

technically true.... but the Russian/Soviet soldier is a special case.

[ISU-152]

The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka

That is just about the most stupid thing to do when you are exposed to extreme weather.

technically true.... but the Russian/Soviet soldier is a special case.

You missed me by a couple of yards. I am an officer of Ukrainian army (neither Soviet nor Russian). You'd better address this issue to Oleg, I believe he served in Chechnya for federal troops.

best regards,
Sergei

[CHRISCHA]

In my humble, non-military opinion, I don't think serving in a present day army is relevant to a lot of the subjects on this site. I do think serving in a present day army is relevant to conditions, comparing training and even weapon handling, so the site does benefit from ex-military. If someone elses point is nonsense, this may be because they are ill informed, unaware or just stupid not because they haven't served. The opinion of some ex-military can be equally stupid because they can only think of their own experiences and not being able to grab the concept of a situation sixty years ago. I do not think anyones opinion should be discouraged, as it adds to the debate, their queries can be answered and it makes the site more intresting. If everyone had the same knowledge and point of veiw, there wouldn't be any posts. For the record FS, I do think the majority of your points are quite correct.

[FormerSoldier]

In my humble, non-military opinion, I don't think serving in a present day army is relevant to a lot of the subjects on this site. I do think serving in a present day army is relevant to conditions, comparing training and even weapon handling, so the site does benefit from ex-military. If someone elses point is nonsense, this may be because they are ill informed, unaware or just stupid not because they haven't served. The opinion of some ex-military can be equally stupid because they can only think of their own experiences and not being able to grab the concept of a situation sixty years ago. I do not think anyones opinion should be discouraged, as it adds to the debate, their queries can be answered and it makes the site more intresting. If everyone had the same knowledge and point of veiw, there wouldn't be any posts. For the record FS, I do think the majority of your points are quite correct.

PLEASE, don't misunderstand. I am not talking about opinions on moral, political, social issues.... I don't want to get dragged into naming, names, but lets just say issues of command and control of military units. There is no substitute for real world experience, and for people to rely on what others have written to formulate their opinions on tactics and operations of the Wehrmact or SS in WWII, is only repeating what someone else has said, and shows no insight into the nature of war. You have to actually participate in war games, and re-enactments to truely see the picture as close to it's original state. Day in and day out over 24 years I did this as a junior and then more senior officer, which has gained me a lot of insight into the tactical and operational nature of the German style of combined arms warfare.

But thank you anyway in your support, please feel free to joing the heated debate on the other thread I'm running my mouth on.. We're up to 21 pages of bickering over the word startegy and whether Hitler lost the war in the East...

http://www.thirdreichforum.com/phpBB2/v ... sc&start=0

[FormerSoldier]

The only way possible to endure this is to drink vodka

That is just about the most stupid thing to do when you are exposed to extreme weather.

technically true.... but the Russian/Soviet soldier is a special case.

You missed me by a couple of yards. I am an officer of Ukrainian army (neither Soviet nor Russian). You'd better address this issue to Oleg, I believe he served in Chechnya for federal troops.

best regards,
Sergei

Sergei, I am sorry and my Ukrainian wife has just hit me over the head for my comment... I guess with half my army career having been during the "Cold War" I still tend to lump the former Soviet states together... but it would seem, the Russian Army and Ukrainian Army are not culturally that different, as it pertains to vodka atleast... or did I get that wrong too?

As for Oleg and Chechnya, I will not touch that, as I am of the belief that Russia is right on that one. They have to draw the line somewhere, or their country will be the size of Moscow.

[CHRISCHA]

Thanks for taking time to post a reply Former Soldier. I will be tapping into your knowledge at some point in the future. Look forward to chatting to you again. Kind regards.

[FormerSoldier]

Thanks for taking time to post a reply Former Soldier. I will be tapping into your knowledge at some point in the future. Look forward to chatting to you again. Kind regards.

By all means.... anytime, and I may do the same.

[Eightball]

I remember reading that the German infantryman was issued boots that fit with the foot. Wich is quite a big mistake because there's no room between the boot and the foot that can hold the warmth, wich caused major frost injuries