10 Rules of the German Soldier

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Christian Ankerstjerne
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Post by Christian Ankerstjerne » 07 Feb 2003 17:03

2ndPanzerEnthusiast wrote:I think what Christian means is that while some of the German soldiers definately broke some of the rules, or while some of the German soldiers broke all of the rules, there were still some German soldiers who didn't break any of the rules. In other words, while many German soldiers did take part in atrocities, there were also many German soldiers that had nothing to do with the atrocities.

Regards,
-Mike
That's what I was trying to say - I wasn't saying that the Germans didn't break the rules, I'm just saying that not all of them broke all the rules all the time...

Christian

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David C. Clarke
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Post by David C. Clarke » 08 Feb 2003 00:08

Yes Christian, I understood your point. But does anyone know if these rules predated the Nazi Regime? Best Regards, David

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 08 Feb 2003 18:33

Krasnaya Zvezda wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Krasnaya Zvezda wrote:So than it goes to say that the German soldier has broken all ten rules, at least in the Eastern front. Actually, it also goes to say that he was living in sin most of the time while in Russia or that he was not a soldier, depends on the definition...
'The' German soldier has broken all the rules? Although all the rules were broken by the German army, that does definately not mean that all German soldiers broke the rules, or lived in sin...

Also, I cannot imagine any (major), Allied or Axis, army that hasn't broken most or all of these rules themselve during WWII...

Christian
I do not understand what are you trying to say? You can clearly read the orders of the German command on how the fight in the east should be conducted. Also read the memoirs of the German soldiers fighting in Russia and you will realize that nobody there had any intentions to behave like a soldier. This is one of the main reason why the war was lost in the East.

All partisans where shot on the spot! Someone after severe torture that had nothing to do with extracting informations but just with pure pleasure of killing and frustration. 100 civilians where executed for any single killed German soldier, 50 for a wounded one. So much to go for the honorable German soldier who could not suck up the losses and continue to fight as a soldier but had to resort to killing the civillians in hope he could be spared further onslaughts. He did not spare the kids too, the famous German soldiers. Cruelties and unnecessary destruction where encouraged, rule number one. Prisoners where executed whenever can, the ones that where not, where not executed because they where needed to work as a slaves for the German war machinery. So much for a fair treatment of prisoners. In the enslavement at least 50 % of them where executed. The civilian population is invulnerable? (rule number 7) Hahaha, they were considered untermenschens , no harm in killing them. As a matter of fact in contrast to the west, about 14 million civilians where killed by the German soldier only in Soviet Union. This compares to about 5 million total German losses in soldiers and civillians in all the fronts. Again, way to go honorable German soldier. They destroyed everything of value in the east.

Now you tell me, when and where the German solider in the east behaved as a soldier and not as a beast? It is not an excuse to say that he was ordered NOT to behave like a soldier, than what was he ordered, the ten rules (commandments) or to be brutal and therefore not a soldier?

I mean the point I am trying to make here is that the ten rules mentioned here did not apply in any way in Soviet Union.
I absolutely agree. The situation in Poland was the same so the rules were bullshit.
Pazdravlayu :D

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 08 Feb 2003 18:37

Krasnaya Zvezda wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Krasnaya Zvezda wrote:So than it goes to say that the German soldier has broken all ten rules, at least in the Eastern front. Actually, it also goes to say that he was living in sin most of the time while in Russia or that he was not a soldier, depends on the definition...
'The' German soldier has broken all the rules? Although all the rules were broken by the German army, that does definately not mean that all German soldiers broke the rules, or lived in sin...

Also, I cannot imagine any (major), Allied or Axis, army that hasn't broken most or all of these rules themselve during WWII...

Christian
I do not understand what are you trying to say? You can clearly read the orders of the German command on how the fight in the east should be conducted. Also read the memoirs of the German soldiers fighting in Russia and you will realize that nobody there had any intentions to behave like a soldier. This is one of the main reason why the war was lost in the East.

All partisans where shot on the spot! Someone after severe torture that had nothing to do with extracting informations but just with pure pleasure of killing and frustration. 100 civilians where executed for any single killed German soldier, 50 for a wounded one. So much to go for the honorable German soldier who could not suck up the losses and continue to fight as a soldier but had to resort to killing the civillians in hope he could be spared further onslaughts. He did not spare the kids too, the famous German soldiers. Cruelties and unnecessary destruction where encouraged, rule number one. Prisoners where executed whenever can, the ones that where not, where not executed because they where needed to work as a slaves for the German war machinery. So much for a fair treatment of prisoners. In the enslavement at least 50 % of them where executed. The civilian population is invulnerable? (rule number 7) Hahaha, they were considered untermenschens , no harm in killing them. As a matter of fact in contrast to the west, about 14 million civilians where killed by the German soldier only in Soviet Union. This compares to about 5 million total German losses in soldiers and civillians in all the fronts. Again, way to go honorable German soldier. They destroyed everything of value in the east.

Now you tell me, when and where the German solider in the east behaved as a soldier and not as a beast? It is not an excuse to say that he was ordered NOT to behave like a soldier, than what was he ordered, the ten rules (commandments) or to be brutal and therefore not a soldier?

I mean the point I am trying to make here is that the ten rules mentioned here did not apply in any way in Soviet Union.
I absolutely agree. The situation in Poland was the same so the rules were bullshit.
Pazdravlayu :D

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Musashi
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Post by Musashi » 08 Feb 2003 18:37

Krasnaya Zvezda wrote:
Christian Ankerstjerne wrote:
Krasnaya Zvezda wrote:So than it goes to say that the German soldier has broken all ten rules, at least in the Eastern front. Actually, it also goes to say that he was living in sin most of the time while in Russia or that he was not a soldier, depends on the definition...
'The' German soldier has broken all the rules? Although all the rules were broken by the German army, that does definately not mean that all German soldiers broke the rules, or lived in sin...

Also, I cannot imagine any (major), Allied or Axis, army that hasn't broken most or all of these rules themselve during WWII...

Christian
I do not understand what are you trying to say? You can clearly read the orders of the German command on how the fight in the east should be conducted. Also read the memoirs of the German soldiers fighting in Russia and you will realize that nobody there had any intentions to behave like a soldier. This is one of the main reason why the war was lost in the East.

All partisans where shot on the spot! Someone after severe torture that had nothing to do with extracting informations but just with pure pleasure of killing and frustration. 100 civilians where executed for any single killed German soldier, 50 for a wounded one. So much to go for the honorable German soldier who could not suck up the losses and continue to fight as a soldier but had to resort to killing the civillians in hope he could be spared further onslaughts. He did not spare the kids too, the famous German soldiers. Cruelties and unnecessary destruction where encouraged, rule number one. Prisoners where executed whenever can, the ones that where not, where not executed because they where needed to work as a slaves for the German war machinery. So much for a fair treatment of prisoners. In the enslavement at least 50 % of them where executed. The civilian population is invulnerable? (rule number 7) Hahaha, they were considered untermenschens , no harm in killing them. As a matter of fact in contrast to the west, about 14 million civilians where killed by the German soldier only in Soviet Union. This compares to about 5 million total German losses in soldiers and civillians in all the fronts. Again, way to go honorable German soldier. They destroyed everything of value in the east.

Now you tell me, when and where the German solider in the east behaved as a soldier and not as a beast? It is not an excuse to say that he was ordered NOT to behave like a soldier, than what was he ordered, the ten rules (commandments) or to be brutal and therefore not a soldier?

I mean the point I am trying to make here is that the ten rules mentioned here did not apply in any way in Soviet Union.
I absolutely agree. The situation in Poland was the same so the rules were bullshit.
Pazdravlayu :D

Krasnaya Zvezda
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Post by Krasnaya Zvezda » 09 Feb 2003 00:50

That's what I was trying to say - I wasn't saying that the Germans didn't break the rules, I'm just saying that not all of them broke all the rules all the time...

Christian
Look, I hate to go into discussion defining basic terms here. When I said German soldier I did not mean this or that German soldier but the German soldier as in German army. Now, OK, that army could have had someone who followed those ten rules, those cases are unknown to me but the point is - the exceptions do not make the rules How many German soldiers were that followed those 10 rules , one, two, three..?? Nobody knows , but we know how German army behaved.

Anyhow, I do understand the German soldier and we all probably would have behaved the same if we were send into the war that in East did not have a goal to defeat the enemy , but it was a war with a sole purpose of taking the territory away from the local inhabitants, exterminating the untenmenschen , by killing him , or sending him behind the Ural, or enslaving him. Destroying everything that is Russian and rebuilding the country as a German lebensraum. I mean with the definition that the Soviet person was inferior to the German and should be killed without any remorse and this is the goal of the war - what kind of German soldier behavior do you expect? Do you think many of them when a German soldier was killed would stand up and say, no it is wrong to shoot 100 kids, women and elderly for one German soldier? I mean, come on guys, this was not France, Benelux or Scandinavia...

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Zeydlitz
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Post by Zeydlitz » 12 Feb 2003 00:24

Before and during the invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941 there was a struggle going on "behind the scenes" between the "old school" of prussian officers (most of them ww1 veterans) and the nazi regime. The above 10 rules are defenitely from the prussian side.

In the evening of june 21. the so-called "Commisar-order" was given: All soviet political officers, jews and partisans were to be handed over to the SS or the "secret field police". (Feldgendarmerie...? I'm translating this out of a norwegian copy of Anthony Beevor's "Stalingrad"...) All intelligence and most staff officers were given Field Marshal von Brauchitsch's order drawing up the "special tasks" of army commanders, SS Sonderkommandos and the Sicherheitsdienst (?) operating behind the front in "this final struggle between two opposite political systems". Finally, a "juridistiction (did I get it right...?) order" denied russian civilians every right to appeal, and also practically aquitted soldiers of committing crimes against civilians in advance, including rape, murder and looting. This order was signed by Field Marshal Keitel.

Many officers of the prussian school were horrified by these orders, and many refused to pass them on to their men. These, however, were the minority. Hitler had made it very clear in his speeches, that the war to come would be a "war of annihilation" against the "bolshevik commisars and the communist intelligensia".

In my opinion, the german army "lost most of its innocense" in 1941, finally caving in to the nazi world view. Wermacht became directly involved in massacres of jews and communists officials. Even General Erich von Manstein, who on private occations would admit he was partly jewish, proclamed after assuming command of I army: "The jewish-bolshevik system must be torn up by its root once and for all".

I guess that'll be enough for today. :wink:

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bpfeffer
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Russian Soldiers

Post by bpfeffer » 12 Feb 2003 20:13

I wonder if the Russian Soldiers had any rules at all?
It would seem not.

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Musashi
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Re: Russian Soldiers

Post by Musashi » 12 Feb 2003 21:26

bpfeffer wrote:I wonder if the Russian Soldiers had any rules at all?
It would seem not.
I would prefer to fall in Soviet hands (except NKVD) than in German hands (particulary SS).

Best regards

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R-Bob The Great!
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Post by R-Bob The Great! » 13 Feb 2003 06:48

I suppose these rules didn't apply to occupied Netherlands, or at least the ones concerning civilians. From what I've read the Dutch were treated awfully as well.

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