Strategic options after Hitler's death

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
Michael Kenny
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by Michael Kenny » 02 Sep 2017 21:16

jesk wrote:
Operation Lüttich was a codename given to a German counter-attack during the Battle of Normandy, which took place around the American positions near Mortain from 7 August to 13 August 1944.
Perhaps you should read up on the other German counter-attack at the start of July.

jesk
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by jesk » 02 Sep 2017 21:59

Michael Kenny wrote: Perhaps you should read up on the other German counter-attack at the start of July.
Counterattack minus 15 divisions in the Pas de Calais area and 15 divisions in Norway, which the Germans could easily leave. Rommel suggested leaving the south of France for success. And this is another 19 army. You must understand, the Germans played give-away. Their blows could be much stronger. This is a strategy. Counterstrike in the beginning of July refers to issues of tactics.

Order of battle (15 July 1944)

At the disposal of the 19. Armee
157. Reserve-Division
IV. Luftwaffen-Feldkorps
716. Infanterie-Division
198. Infanterie-Division (refitting)
189. Reserve-Division
Gruppe Knieß
338. Infanterie-Division
244. Infanterie-Division
LXII. Reserve-Korps
242. Infanterie-Division
148. Reserve-Division


jesk
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by jesk » 02 Sep 2017 22:04

Hitler's iron hand united Europe. He founded the European Union.

Image

Michael Kenny
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by Michael Kenny » 02 Sep 2017 22:17

jesk wrote:Hitler's iron hand united Europe. He founded the European Union.

Image
Ah so that is the answer to all the rubbish that has been posted. The crazy idea that EU=Nazism.
La-La land.

jesk
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by jesk » 02 Sep 2017 22:42

Michael Kenny wrote:
Ah so that is the answer to all the rubbish that has been posted. The crazy idea that EU=Nazism.
La-La land.
Rubbish that the Germans played a giveaway? You are too liberal about history.

I have my own opinion. And I agree with Edgar Cayce. The consequence of the defeat of Germany in the war was the unification of Europe.

http://www.edgarcaysi.narod.ru/priyma_53.html

In the mid-thirties, Edgar Cayce gave another erroneous forecast, wrongly assessing in a hypnotic trance the motives that guided Adolf Hitler, who at that time came to power in Germany.

The "readings" claimed that Hitler's supreme goal was more than noble. It boils down to the unification of all of Europe into a common democratic state. Hitler, according to the "reading" about him, was to bring happiness to the peoples of Europe, general material prosperity and "higher democratic and ethical principles".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce

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MarkF617
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by MarkF617 » 03 Sep 2017 01:10

So Brexit is the new Dunkirk! :lol:
You know you're British when you drive your German car to an Irish pub for a pint of Belgian beer before having an Indian meal. When you get home you sit on your Sweedish sofa and watch American programs on your Japanese TV.

Richard Anderson
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Sep 2017 01:35

jesk wrote:Speculation. Some divisions were closer Holland.
And why did you for that Whitebread Division near Utrecht remember.
I doubt you know the word, but your translator should. It's "facetious".

The "Whitebread Division" was 165. Res.-Inf.-Div. (bo) at 15 K.V.A.-A1, which were the defenses of Walcheren. It's headquarters was at Vlissingen, not Utrecht.

Yes, there were many divisions "closer Holland". There were the divisions of LXXXI AK for example, which were deployed east of the Orne...such as 711. ID, deployed in the coastal defenses of 15 K.V.A.-G with its headquarters at Le Quesnay near Pont-L’Evêque. It engaged some paratroopers, which landed in its zone, but it was incapable of offensive action. So incapable, according to German assessment, that 346. ID, which, if you remember, was reforming as a Bewegungs division using confiscated French vehicles and additional equipment, passed through it to engage the 6th Airborne Division, supported by KG von Luck. Mind, you, since they were 15. Armee units they must not have really been there, since you say none were engaged.

Meanwhile, committing the 346. ID meant that the 84. ID, which was still organizing, was the sole mobile reserve for the LXXXI AL coastal zone if the Allies landed there.

The next units, of LXVII AK, were clustered around Amiens. They had roughly a 200-230 kilometer walk to get to Caen and the battle area. Yes, they could have gone...well, 85. ID could have, just like 77. ID did, leaving St. Hélen (6 kilometers east of Dinan), and marching the 166 kilometers to Valognes after being alerted for the movement c. 2240 hours 6 June, arriving there in the evening of 9 June, so 36 hours later. Of course, that was the sole motorized battalion kampfgruppe...the rest of the division did not close in place until 19 June as elements trickled onto the battlefield.

Except the same threats to the 15. Armee coastal defense zone existed in the LXVII AK area as they did in the LXXXI AK area...and the LXXXII AK area and the LXXXIX AK area...immobile divisions defending the coastline, supported by widely spread mobile divisions...most of pretty indifferent quality. The Allies could land anywhere, at any time.

Of course, 15. Armee could have sent its "emergency" units...the small mobile fractions of the static divisions, just as 7. Armee did, sending reinforcements from units such as 266. ID. Except they too would have been required for a landing in the 15. Armee zone.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Richard Anderson
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Sep 2017 01:40

jesk wrote:I have my own opinion. And I agree with Edgar Cayce.
Yes, the notable military and political analyst Edgar Cayce. I wonder if he predicted Hitler's creation of the EU? :roll: :roll: :roll:

Are you including the role of the Illuminati, the Trilateral Council, and the Gnomes of Zurich in your scenario too?
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

Richard Anderson
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by Richard Anderson » 03 Sep 2017 01:50

Michael Kenny wrote:Perhaps you should read up on the other German counter-attack at the start of July.
Or the 8 June counterattack by I SS-Panzerkorps. Which failed. Or the 12 June counterattack by Panzergruppe West ordered by Hitler. Which was stillborn. Or the counterattacks ordered for 19 June...20 June.
"Is all this pretentious pseudo intellectual citing of sources REALLY necessary? It gets in the way of a good, spirited debate, destroys the cadence." POD, 6 October 2018

David Thompson
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Re: Strategic options after Hitler's death

Post by David Thompson » 03 Sep 2017 02:38

Since AHF is an apolitical forum, we don't have discussions on current politics, and this thread is locked.

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