Barbarossa Planning

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doogal
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Barbarossa Planning

Post by doogal » 02 Dec 2018 16:50

I have been reading Operation Barbarossa and Germanys defeat in the east by Stahel.


Stahel covers in more detail than i have read in other works, (Apart from Halder s diary) the period of planning up to the issuing of Directive 21. Can anyone provide a more detailed work which covers this period ? My main interest is covered in Part 1 .Strategic plans and theoretical conceptions for war against the Soviet Union, p, 33 - 104 which examines Marcks and Lossbergs planning then Paulus and subsequent war gaming of the submitted plans.
Megargee covers some of the same period (Inside Hitlers high command) but not in real detail and he skirts over the areas I am in interested in looking at.

I have not read a great deal in most histories of this period apart from the basic outline of planning. Which usually leads into the forces and subsequent battles in the east. I have not yet found a dedicated work on this period and would like to study the war gaming phase and the conclusions, any suggestions would be welcome.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 02 Dec 2018 17:21

Hitler changed the plan of Marcks. He forced the Germans to go the extra 200 kilometers to the north of Ukraine. Marcks wanted to deliver the main blow from the territory of Romania.

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Art
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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by Art » 02 Dec 2018 17:22

Germany and the Second World War IV has an about 150 pages section on Barbarossa planning.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by Paul Lakowski » 02 Dec 2018 17:39

Art wrote:
02 Dec 2018 17:22
Germany and the Second World War IV has an about 150 pages section on Barbarossa planning.

OH GOD! and I thought I was going to get through Christmas with out having to make a major purchase!!!!

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by doogal » 02 Dec 2018 17:54

thanks ,,,

I am mostly trying to ascertain whether the planning process had been compromised, and as to what exactly this was: i.e. euphoria over the success in the west, institutional over confidence, willfull delusion, conceit, idiotic belief in superiority in terms other than militarily.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by Cult Icon » 02 Dec 2018 17:56

I read both Stahel and Barbarossa Derailed- the latter has a lot of documents and maps that may suit your needs

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 02 Dec 2018 19:16

doogal wrote:
02 Dec 2018 17:54
thanks ,,,

I am mostly trying to ascertain whether the planning process had been compromised, and as to what exactly this was: i.e. euphoria over the success in the west, institutional over confidence, willfull delusion, conceit, idiotic belief in superiority in terms other than militarily.
Since 1938, Hitler has made strategic plans. Not the Germans, only Hitler.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by doogal » 02 Dec 2018 19:49

jesk wrote : Since 1938, Hitler has made strategic plans. Not the Germans, only Hitler.
I am referring to the planning process of the OKH and also officers of the OKW. I am not looking at Hitlers Strategic decision to attack the USSR, but rather the process which OKH and OKW went through to turn the Strategic direction into a military offensive. Specifically the area which is concerned with the development of the scheme of manoeuvre advance and operational philosophy. This also includes the General staffs obligation to use a critical process of reflection on the pros and cons of any operational undertaking. So that it may give adequate and purposeful feedback as to the proper use of forces and feasibility of any operation.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 02 Dec 2018 19:59

Another scheme to make Hitler sabotage clearer. He forced the Germans to go 200 kilometers across the north of Ukraine, having the opportunity to cut off all this territory with a strike from the territory of Romania.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by j keenan » 02 Dec 2018 22:52

Paul Lakowski wrote:
02 Dec 2018 17:39
Art wrote:
02 Dec 2018 17:22
Germany and the Second World War IV has an about 150 pages section on Barbarossa planning.

OH GOD! and I thought I was going to get through Christmas with out having to make a major purchase!!!!
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Sear ... ISBN-_-new

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 03 Dec 2018 11:04

Another plan without Ukraine.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 03 Dec 2018 16:52

Barbarossa was an amusing plan to disperse forces. Germans needed only to go through Belorussia to Moscow and end the war. Why attack Leningrad if can go to the rear 1000 km east, cutting off Russians from supply !?

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by Paul Lakowski » 06 Dec 2018 05:39

jesk wrote:
03 Dec 2018 11:04
Another plan without Ukraine.

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This does nothing to address flood of reinforcements from the east and the north from August to Dec 1941..

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 06 Dec 2018 06:38

Paul Lakowski wrote:
06 Dec 2018 05:39
This does nothing to address flood of reinforcements from the east and the north from August to Dec 1941..
In October, the thaw began. In the period June-September, Germans could solve problems. September-October 2 million prisoners. Later, the weather made adjustments to the plans.

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Re: Barbarossa Planning

Post by jesk » 06 Dec 2018 07:16

June-August for 70 days of war only 1,5 million prisoners. Many pauses and struggle with the surrounded troops. Without Hitler, German offensive could have been faster.

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