where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

Discussions on High Command, strategy and the Armed Forces (Wehrmacht) in general.
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jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#466

Post by jesk » 19 Apr 2019, 18:45

Material for analysis. What happened with 4th panzer army? The movement of divisions, their number.
2. SS-Panzer-Division “Das Reich” 1. SS-Panzer-Division “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler”?

https://www.axishistory.com/list-all-ca ... anzerarmee

Order of battle (26 Dec 1943)

At the disposal of the 4. Panzerarmee
- 20. Panzer-Grenadier-Division (refitting)
- 18. Artillerie-Division
- 454. Sicherungs-Division
XXIV. Panzerkorps
- 112. Infanterie-Division
- 34. Infanterie-Division
- 82. Infanterie-Division
VII. Armeekorps
- 75. Infanterie-Division
- 198. Infanterie-Division
- 88. Infanterie-Division
XXXXII. Armeekorps
- 25. Panzer-Division
- 168. Infanterie-Division
XXXXVIII. Panzerkorps
- 19. Panzer-Division
- 8. Panzer-Division
- Kampfgruppe 2. SS-Panzer-Division “Das Reich”
- 1. SS-Panzer-Division “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler”
- 1. Panzer-Division
XIII. Armeekorps
- 68. Infanterie-Division
- Gruppe 213. Sicherungs-Division
- 340. Infanterie-Division
- Kampfgruppe 208. Infanterie-Division + Kavallerie-Regiment Süd
- Kampfgruppe 7. Panzer-Division
LIX. Armeekorps
- 291. Infanterie-Division
- Korps-Abteilung C (Divisionsgruppen 183, 217, 339)


Order of battle (15 Apr 1944)

XXXXVIII. Panzerkorps
- 359. Infanterie-Division
- 9. SS-Panzer-Division “Hohenstaufen” + Kampf-Verband Oberst Friebe
- 357. Infanterie-Division
- 349. Infanterie-Division
XIII. Armeekorps
- 454. Sicherungs-Division
- Korps-Abteilung C (Divisionsgruppen 183, 217, 339)
- 361. Infanterie-Division + Stab 213. Sicherungs-Division
- Kampfgruppe General Brenner + Sperr-Verband Oberst von Prittwitz
- Kampfgruppe von Radowitz (8. Panzer-Division)
- 340. Infanterie-Division
XXXII. Armeekorps z.b.V.
- 72. Infanterie-Division
- 214. Infanterie-Division

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#467

Post by jesk » 19 Apr 2019, 19:03

19. Panzer-Division was in Ukraine, then Breda Netherlands

Image

25. Panzer-Division- 5 months till September restoration. Why? Resources left to the west.

Image


jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#468

Post by jesk » 19 Apr 2019, 19:12

2. SS-Panzer-Division “Das Reich” from Winniza in Toulouse. Hitler does not want to risk for the sake of victory in the east. He scatters troops across Europe.

Image

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#469

Post by jesk » 19 Apr 2019, 19:19

War for Germans was often an amazing travel. Russia, Holland, France, Belgium, Norway. One division even capitulated on Crete. German tourists are well rested. Why go to Moscow when can go to Holland?
Hitler raped Europe. Built on a monstrous lie, the European Union should burn in hell. I think so.

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doogal
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#470

Post by doogal » 19 Apr 2019, 22:02

Wow :?

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#471

Post by jesk » 19 Apr 2019, 22:50

When you reach my level of spiritual development, it will be easier for you to understand the scale of the personality of Hitler. One man defeated Germany. He wanted to lose the war in order to create a modern European Union.

Image

So far, another link about the won battle for Britain.

https://unitedcats.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... -mistakes/

In any event though, it is astonishing some of the blunders Hitler made. No wonder the Allied High command sometimes joked that Hitler was their greatest ally:

1. Battle of Britain. When Hitler ordered the Luftwaffe to “take out” the Brits, the Luftwaffe sensibly enough began their campaign by trying to destroy the RAF. By the RAF’s admission, they nearly succeeded, in fact they were about two weeks away from pretty much shutting down the RAF and controlling the skies of Britain. Then Hitler got involved and ordered the Luftwaffe to attack the British cities instead, especially London. Which did nothing but piss the British off and freed to RAF to concentrate on regaining control of the skies over Britain. London burned, but German casualties mounted to the point where they had to call off the campaign, and that was that.

ljadw
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#472

Post by ljadw » 20 Apr 2019, 07:04

jesk wrote:
19 Apr 2019, 18:45
Material for analysis. What happened with 4th panzer army? The movement of divisions, their number.
2. SS-Panzer-Division “Das Reich” 1. SS-Panzer-Division “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler”?

https://www.axishistory.com/list-all-ca ... anzerarmee

Order of battle (26 Dec 1943)

At the disposal of the 4. Panzerarmee
- 20. Panzer-Grenadier-Division (refitting)
- 18. Artillerie-Division
- 454. Sicherungs-Division
XXIV. Panzerkorps
- 112. Infanterie-Division
- 34. Infanterie-Division
- 82. Infanterie-Division
VII. Armeekorps
- 75. Infanterie-Division
- 198. Infanterie-Division
- 88. Infanterie-Division
XXXXII. Armeekorps
- 25. Panzer-Division
- 168. Infanterie-Division
XXXXVIII. Panzerkorps
- 19. Panzer-Division
- 8. Panzer-Division
- Kampfgruppe 2. SS-Panzer-Division “Das Reich”
- 1. SS-Panzer-Division “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler”
- 1. Panzer-Division
XIII. Armeekorps
- 68. Infanterie-Division
- Gruppe 213. Sicherungs-Division
- 340. Infanterie-Division
- Kampfgruppe 208. Infanterie-Division + Kavallerie-Regiment Süd
- Kampfgruppe 7. Panzer-Division
LIX. Armeekorps
- 291. Infanterie-Division
- Korps-Abteilung C (Divisionsgruppen 183, 217, 339)


Order of battle (15 Apr 1944)

XXXXVIII. Panzerkorps
- 359. Infanterie-Division
- 9. SS-Panzer-Division “Hohenstaufen” + Kampf-Verband Oberst Friebe
- 357. Infanterie-Division
- 349. Infanterie-Division
XIII. Armeekorps
- 454. Sicherungs-Division
- Korps-Abteilung C (Divisionsgruppen 183, 217, 339)
- 361. Infanterie-Division + Stab 213. Sicherungs-Division
- Kampfgruppe General Brenner + Sperr-Verband Oberst von Prittwitz
- Kampfgruppe von Radowitz (8. Panzer-Division)
- 340. Infanterie-Division
XXXII. Armeekorps z.b.V.
- 72. Infanterie-Division
- 214. Infanterie-Division
The remainings !! of 2 and 1 SS were going to the West to be refitted .1 SS was NOT operational on D Day and 2 SS was not much better .

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#473

Post by jesk » 20 Apr 2019, 07:33

ljadw wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 07:04
The remainings !! of 2 and 1 SS were going to the West to be refitted .1 SS was NOT operational on D Day and 2 SS was not much better .
Rundstedt was against the destruction of bridgeheads in the early days. He believed that the Allies should be given the opportunity to land many troops. Then destroy them. Dreamed of a new Dunkirk. But it was not possible!?

ljadw
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#474

Post by ljadw » 20 Apr 2019, 08:14

Rundstedt was wrong, Rommel also was wrong .

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#475

Post by jesk » 20 Apr 2019, 08:20

ljadw wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 08:14
Rundstedt was wrong, Rommel also was wrong .
Their competence has NEVER been wrong. In contrast ... Do not argue with God. He still knows more.

ljadw
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#476

Post by ljadw » 20 Apr 2019, 09:46

What Rundstedt proposed could not work : see what happened at Salerno ,
What Rommel proposed could also not work : the Germans were to weak to prevent an allied landing ( the Allies landed on a line from Cherbourg to Caen ) and they were to weAK to drive the Allies back after they landed ,what the Germans needed was a miracle and ,even they were going to Lourdes,Fatima and other such places, they would not have a miracle . The landing could only fail if the Allies were messing it up .

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#477

Post by jesk » 20 Apr 2019, 09:49

ljadw wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 09:46
What Rundstedt proposed could not work : see what happened at Salerno ,
What Rommel proposed could also not work : the Germans were to weak to prevent an allied landing ( the Allies landed on a line from Cherbourg to Caen ) and they were to weAK to drive the Allies back after they landed ,what the Germans needed was a miracle and ,even they were going to Lourdes,Fatima and other such places, they would not have a miracle . The landing could only fail if the Allies were messing it up .
Ejection of words into the void. What happened in Salerno? And why should this happen in Normandy? The same with Rommel.

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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#478

Post by Peter89 » 20 Apr 2019, 11:01

Please suspend jesk...

He's just sabotaging every topic, and this is not a conspiration theory
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

jesk
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#479

Post by jesk » 20 Apr 2019, 11:42

Well, I will not repeat that Hitler specially was mistaken. As for the sabotage of topic, some have nothing to say on topic, but on occasion do not miss the opportunity to show themselves as businesslike.(показать себя деловым)

ljadw
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Re: where the "Hitler should have listen to his general " come from?

#480

Post by ljadw » 21 Apr 2019, 08:44

jesk wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 09:49
ljadw wrote:
20 Apr 2019, 09:46
What Rundstedt proposed could not work : see what happened at Salerno ,
What Rommel proposed could also not work : the Germans were to weak to prevent an allied landing ( the Allies landed on a line from Cherbourg to Caen ) and they were to weAK to drive the Allies back after they landed ,what the Germans needed was a miracle and ,even they were going to Lourdes,Fatima and other such places, they would not have a miracle . The landing could only fail if the Allies were messing it up .
Ejection of words into the void. What happened in Salerno? And why should this happen in Normandy? The same with Rommel.
In Salerno a German counter-offensive to eject the allies who had landed,was blocked by allied air superiority .
And Rommel's theory also could not work,because the Allies landed on a broad front of 120 km,and if on one of these sectors the landing was successful,it was over,as the Germans had not the forces to roll up the frontline .Rommel's solution : to split the mobile divisions in stationary batallions,each with the mission to prevent an allied landing in their sector was a desperate solution which could not work .
The big problem and insoluble problem was that the German coast defenses and bodenständige ( = fortress ) divisions were to weak and that there were not enough mobile divisions to intervene on a front of 120 km .
:roll:

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