Were tanks distributed in infantry divisions?

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PanzerKing
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Were tanks distributed in infantry divisions?

#1

Post by PanzerKing » 18 Jun 2003, 21:06

Or did the anti-tank battalion have only assualt guns and tank destroyers?

If they did receive tanks, what size was the unit?

A-Bomb
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#2

Post by A-Bomb » 18 Jun 2003, 22:06

Panzer Divisions had their own infantry.


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PanzerKing
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#3

Post by PanzerKing » 18 Jun 2003, 23:06

That wasn't my question, I know they had their own infantry...

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#4

Post by Timo » 18 Jun 2003, 23:21

There were no tanks in Infanterie-Divisionen, apart from some incidental ad-hoc late war examples. Off course there will be somebody who comes up with an exeption to the rule :)

Infanterie-Divisionen had organic AT units (towed or selfprop but not armoured) and Panzergrenadier-Divisionen had organic StuG and towed AT. Volksgrenadier-Divisionen had an organic platoon of six Hetzers.

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Erik E
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#5

Post by Erik E » 18 Jun 2003, 23:29

Off course there will be somebody who comes up with an exeption to the rule
274 I.D had ca 25 tanks attached in 1944. They were most old Somoua and Hotchkiss tanks. :wink:
This, however, was a "fortress division" which were not involved in any offensive tasks, it was purely for defence.

Erik

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PanzerKing
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#6

Post by PanzerKing » 19 Jun 2003, 07:03

Thanks!

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#7

Post by schjertzer » 19 Jun 2003, 14:36

If I remember correctly, then Grossdeutchland had its own tank detachment - even when it was still panzer grenadier division!! 8O

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Harri
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#8

Post by Harri » 19 Jun 2003, 15:11

Only a few non-motorized German infantry divisions had organic tanks units during the war. Most tank units within infantry divisions were subordinated separate armoured battalions [Panzer-Abteilung]. Organic StuG and Pz.Jäger units were more common but rare too at the early phases of war. They became common by 1944.

Later during WW II (1943 - 1944) Panzerjäger Abteilung [AT Battalion] in many infantry divisions was equipped with an assault gun unit called initially Sturmgeschütz Batterie [Assault Gun Battery], since spring 1944 Sturmgeschütz Abteilung [Assault Gun Battalion] although its organization remained the same. Strength was about 120 men.

These units had usually ten StuG III, StuG IV or later also Hetzer assault guns. Panzer-Werkstatt-Zug [Tank Repair Shop Platoon] was usually subordinated with it. StuG.Abt. was typically numbered with division number added with 1000 (for example 122.D had 1122.StuG.Abt.). Also certain Lufwaffe Field Divisions had an organic StuG Battery of about ten StuGs. (Because StuGs were originally artillery weapons their units were batteries, not companies).

Also Marder I, II or III self-propelled guns were used but in that case unit was more likely called Panzerjäger-Kompanie (Sfl.) (Sfl. = self-propelled). Other companies within AT Battalion were Panzerjäger-Kompanie [AT Gun Company] with 12 towed AT guns and a Flak-Batterie or Flak-Kompanie [Anti-aircraft Battery/Company] (depending on if it was a Heer of Luftwaffe unit) with (about) 12 towed 20mm AA guns.

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Harri
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#9

Post by Harri » 19 Jun 2003, 15:49

schjertzer wrote:If I remember correctly, then Grossdeutchland had its own tank detachment - even when it was still panzer grenadier division!!
Grossdeutschland was a motorized infantry regiment before winter 1941/42 when it was re-organized as an motorized infantry division. Infanterie-Regiment (mot) "GD" had an organic StuG.Kompanie (sic!) which was the 16. Kompanie / IV. Schützen-Bataillon. It was actually Sturmartillerie Batterie 640 attached to regiment. I'm not quite sure how many StuGs it had but I guess the number was only six.

Infanterie-Division (mot) "GD" had both organic StuG.-Abteilung and Panzer-Truppe (Abteilung). In spring 1943 "GD" was reorganized again as Panzergrenadier-Division "GD". Division had now Panzer-Regiment which initially consisted of two and later three Panzer-Abteilungen (I.Pz.Abt. - Panther, II.Pz.Abt. - PzKw IV, III.Pz.Abt. - Tiger). Note that at least the Panther Abteilung was changed in the early summer 1944, when units were re-equipped. IIRC the replacing unit was the Panther Abteilung of 3.Pz.D and the original "GD" Panthers fought with the Panzer-Lehr-Division.

StuG-Abteilung remained with the division but in spring 1944 it was renamed as StuG-Brigade. In the summer 1944 1. Pz.SP-Schwadron / Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung "GD" [1. Armoured Squadron / Armoured Recon Battalion] was equipped with Hetzers.

But I think this thread was about non-motorized infantry divisions, so lets keep in topic...

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#10

Post by Andy H » 19 Jun 2003, 18:06

Didn't the Prinz Eugen Division have an integral armoured unit?

Andy H

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Harri
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#11

Post by Harri » 19 Jun 2003, 18:33

It had captured French tanks, but it is not infantry division either...

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#12

Post by PanzerKing » 19 Jun 2003, 18:54

Thanks guys, this helps a lot!

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#13

Post by A-Bomb » 19 Jun 2003, 21:48

Why did most Panzer divisions have only one regiment? :? Was it just one TANK regiment with two grenadier regiments?

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#14

Post by Christoph Awender » 19 Jun 2003, 21:55

A-Bomb wrote:Why did most Panzer divisions have only one regiment? :? Was it just one TANK regiment with two grenadier regiments?
The number of tank-regiments was reduced from two to one after the France campaign. It was out of organizational reasons as they needed more armoured units for the upcoming russian campaign.

\Christoph

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#15

Post by stcamp » 19 Jun 2003, 22:21

schjertzer wrote:If I remember correctly, then Grossdeutchland had its own tank detachment - even when it was still panzer grenadier division!! 8O
I think they had Tigers (16?) towards the end.

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