Regional breakdown of German losses

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Oswald Mosley
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Regional breakdown of German losses

Post by Oswald Mosley » 27 Jul 2002 18:12

I'm very curious to know which parts of Germany suffered more or less than others; in other words a regional breakdown of war casualties, to cover both military and civilian losses.

I'm pretty sure that East Prussia/Danzig must have borne the highest losses after the brutal Soviet reprisals of 1945. I remember reading that 20% of that region's population perished in or as a consequnce of the conflict.
Most areas of eastern German will also have suffered very badly.

As for the less hard hit areas, possibly Bavaria and western Austria and also Schleswig-Holstein. Just my educated guesses.

If anybody has solid information, please post it here - thanks.

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Wolfkin
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Post by Wolfkin » 28 Jul 2002 07:42

Yo dude!!!

I dunno if this will help y'all, but it might be good for a start!!!

http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/statistics.htm

Go down to military losses and click on anything there. Especially losses by region!

It only shows military losses, though, and I think you are after civilian??? This is all I can find for now.

Cheers dude!!!

Wolfkin

Oswald Mosley
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Post by Oswald Mosley » 31 Jul 2002 00:20

Thanks. However, I am also interested in breakdowns for civilian losses.

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Steve
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Post by Steve » 04 Aug 2002 14:11

I have come across figures of 500,000 dead from allied bombing, as the dead from Hamburg and Dresden would ammount to 100,000 this may be accurate but seems high to me. In the Soviet winter offensive of 45 that cleared East Prussia - Pomerania - Silesia 1,600,000 civilian dead is given by a German writer. In the final Soviet offensive from the Oder to Berlin the Soviets estimated civilian casualties at 100,000. I would treat most casualty figures with a pinch of salt as the further away from the war we get the more they seem to go up.

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Juha Hujanen
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Post by Juha Hujanen » 04 Aug 2002 16:09

In Hamburg 55000 people were killed in bombings,in various fronts 62856 soldiers from Hamburg were also killed.

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Roberto
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Post by Roberto » 05 Aug 2002 13:16

Steve wrote:I have come across figures of 500,000 dead from allied bombing, as the dead from Hamburg and Dresden would ammount to 100,000 this may be accurate but seems high to me. In the Soviet winter offensive of 45 that cleared East Prussia - Pomerania - Silesia 1,600,000 civilian dead is given by a German writer. In the final Soviet offensive from the Oder to Berlin the Soviets estimated civilian casualties at 100,000. I would treat most casualty figures with a pinch of salt as the further away from the war we get the more they seem to go up.


I translated the following from an article published in a recent special feature of the German news magazine Der Spiegel about the flight and expulsion of Germans from the East:

When the Federal Archives in the mid-1970s evaluated the reports of witnesses, the scientists counted around 3,300 so called crime sites east of the Oder and Neiße where German civilians had been beaten to death or shot, raped to death or burned alive. The Federal Archives concluded that at least 120,000 Germans had died on the flight.
How many people in total fell victim to flight and expulsion has not been clarified. In the 1950s the Federal Statistics Bureau simply estimated the number of Germans who before 1945 had lived east of the Oder and Neiße and therefrom deducted the number of those who after the war were living in the German Federal Republic, Austria or the German Democratic Republic. The difference was more than two million.
That this order of magnitude must be too high became apparent at the time already from lists of missing civilians; only about one-tenth – ca. 200,000 people – were being searched by relatives and friends. So far however only the Danube Svabians [ethnic Germans of Yugoslavia, translators’ note] made the effort to individually document all victims – and halved the estimates of the Federal Statistics Bureau for their region.


Note that the two million estimate of the Federal Statistics Bureau covered both the final phase of the war in the East and the postwar expulsion of ethnic Germans from the former eastern territories of Germany and from Eastern European countries, mainly Poland and Czechoslovakia.

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Csaba Becze
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Post by Csaba Becze » 05 Aug 2002 14:15

Roberto:

The Danube Svabians are and were Germans of Hungary (in Tolna and Baranya counties).

Csaba

Oswald Mosley
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Post by Oswald Mosley » 06 Aug 2002 20:38

From the Hamburg figures I suppose that around 117,000 inhabitants of the city were killed in the six year conflict. Around 11% of the city's population - a very high death rate, but less than the 20% estimated to have perished in East Prussia.

Oswald Mosley
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Post by Oswald Mosley » 06 Aug 2002 20:43

Roberto wrote:
Steve wrote:I have come across figures of 500,000 dead from allied bombing, as the dead from Hamburg and Dresden would ammount to 100,000 this may be accurate but seems high to me. In the Soviet winter offensive of 45 that cleared East Prussia - Pomerania - Silesia 1,600,000 civilian dead is given by a German writer. In the final Soviet offensive from the Oder to Berlin the Soviets estimated civilian casualties at 100,000. I would treat most casualty figures with a pinch of salt as the further away from the war we get the more they seem to go up.


I translated the following from an article published in a recent special feature of the German news magazine Der Spiegel about the flight and expulsion of Germans from the East:

When the Federal Archives in the mid-1970s evaluated the reports of witnesses, the scientists counted around 3,300 so called crime sites east of the Oder and Neiße where German civilians had been beaten to death or shot, raped to death or burned alive. The Federal Archives concluded that at least 120,000 Germans had died on the flight.
How many people in total fell victim to flight and expulsion has not been clarified. In the 1950s the Federal Statistics Bureau simply estimated the number of Germans who before 1945 had lived east of the Oder and Neiße and therefrom deducted the number of those who after the war were living in the German Federal Republic, Austria or the German Democratic Republic. The difference was more than two million.
That this order of magnitude must be too high became apparent at the time already from lists of missing civilians; only about one-tenth – ca. 200,000 people – were being searched by relatives and friends. So far however only the Danube Svabians [ethnic Germans of Yugoslavia, translators’ note] made the effort to individually document all victims – and halved the estimates of the Federal Statistics Bureau for their region.


Note that the two million estimate of the Federal Statistics Bureau covered both the final phase of the war in the East and the postwar expulsion of ethnic Germans from the former eastern territories of Germany and from Eastern European countries, mainly Poland and Czechoslovakia.



Interesting. We'll never really know the truth, but we do know that many innocents did die in these pointless revenge attacks. The reason that so few were being sought by relatives and friends is simple: entire families were exterminated, thereby leaving no surviving relatives.

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