Aida1 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2019 14:22You are conveniently forgetting that German Panzer divisions originaly did have more tanks as they had 2 Panzer regiments in a Panzer brigade . What Guderian proposed was going back to the original tank strong Panzerdivision where the number of tanks is proportional to the other weapons(Panzerleader, Guderian Futura 1952 p 295). It is the setting up of new divisions for Barbarossa that caused the change in the structure of Panzerdivisions.Ulater wrote: ↑27 Dec 2019 10:58And you clearly do not understand that a panzer division would not operate in a frictionless empty steppe, and that size matters.Aida1 wrote: ↑27 Dec 2019 09:13You clearly do not understand that the striking power of a 400 tank Panzerdivision has much more striking power than one with much less tanks. And this strong division has less vehicles than two smaller ones as it does not have double the amount of infantry,only more tanks. Do not continue to pretend that you know more about tanks than Heinz Guderian.ljadw wrote: ↑26 Dec 2019 22:05The existing panzer divisions of June 1941 with 200 tanks were as good as the panzer divisions of May 1940 with 260 tanks .
3 PzD had in May 1940 341 tanks and 9 PzD had 153 tanks and the former was not better than the latter .And it is not so that a PzD with 341 tanks would have less vehicles than a PzD with 153 tanks . The number of vehicles was not dependent on the number of tanks .
This larger theoretical division would not have less vehicles than two smaller ones, because:
In the simple core of your premise, you get a normal tank division that would have 150 tanks, or roughly 700 crewmen at this time, as compared to 1800 crewmen in your theoretical 400 tank strong tank division. Given not all would be 5 man tanks lets give them uneven numbers. That would mean bigger baggage train, more trucks and more horses, and more drivers. you can notice that already additional people are snowballing to additional people.These, along with the expansion by more than 250 tanks, would need a substantial increase in size for supply units and repair units. Just the ammount of additional cranes, tankers and trucks for new regimental/battalion units and existing units would be mind blowing - again, we are adding more drivers and mechanics. You would also need many more radiomen, adjutants, commanders and generally staff to keep command & control at some respectable levels. And more trucks, and drivers for them. This already justifies an increase of manpower in the medical unit, another increase in baggage train, and even more drivers.
This of course is without considering that it is "current year", and we dont let tanks into fight without infantry support anymore. So proportionally increase the manpower of the panzegrenadier unit, with proportional increase of artillery, trucks and support personnel.
Or do not do any of this, and see it go the way of soviet tank units in 1941.
And the original tank strong Panzerdivisions did have infantry support as they had an infantry brigade with 3 batallions. You clearly do not know much about Guderians ideas on armoured warfare as it was all about combined arms .
If a Panzerdivision is not tank strong,the attrition quickly transform it into a de facto Panzergrenadier division. The striking power of a Panzer division in the real sense of the word is much higher than that of a Panzergrenadier So better one tank strong Panzerdivision than two with much fewer tanks.
A tank in an average Panzer Division in 1941 could call on twice as much infantry, artillery, logistical and maintenance support while there being on average just 1/4 less tanks and considerably more APCs than in your average panzer division in 1940.
And no, it certainly isnt the establishment of new panzer divisions only that caused a reformation of Panzer divisions with one strengthened regiment, and as they become available, APC mounted infantry, in increased numbers, and aditionalheavy artillery + supply units.
Quite literally everyone, and Wehrmacht after France, found out that tank heavy units are not good.
That would have to be demonstrated.Your text betrays a lack of reading as Guderian was going back to the original tank strong Panzerdivision of 1935 which had more than 300 tanks and functioned perfectly in the campaigns in Poland and France.