At what point did Germany lose WW2?

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Montgomery
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Re:

Post by Montgomery » 31 Oct 2023 07:12

Edwin Meinsma wrote:
21 Sep 2002 19:44
I would say on June 22th 1941, attacking the Sovietunion was a fatal error.

Regards,
Edwin Meinsma
Yes , True , Beginning of the defeat , Hitler should have played diplomacy here to stop any threat from USSR instead of attacking it.
Georing was aginest the Barbarosa campaign ! he was right.
The awake of USSR fully againest Germany absorbed all the resurces of production for that campaiagn.
Romel and African corps was among the first armies to suffer from that.

Cheers

ljadw
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by ljadw » 31 Oct 2023 08:53

There was no any threat from the USSR and Hitler did not attack the USSR because of such a threat .And, Barbarossa was not a fatal error .
And the Axis forces in NA ( which were much more than the 1,later 2 German divisions in NA ) did not suffer because of Barbarossa .Besides the fighting in NA was totally secondary compared to Barbarossa .

Globalization41
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by Globalization41 » 31 Oct 2023 13:10

Strategically, Hitler should not have redirected his offensive punch toward Moscow after the Kiev encirclement in 1941. Seemingly, he gambled that the fall of Moscow would result in the collapse of the Soviet government. ... However, Moscow was less strategic than the Ukraine. ... The war was actually lost when a grouchy Hitler declared war on the U.S. (after the Pearl Harbor raid) as German troops bogged down before Moscow. The weight of the U.S. became apparent only slowly, but the Soviets would not have won without U.S. help.

Globalization41.

ljadw
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by ljadw » 31 Oct 2023 16:42

Hitler would lose against
a a coalition of US and UK,with the USSR neutral or occupied
b a coalition of UK and USSR with US neutral
c a coalition of US and USSR with Britain neutral or occupied.But I doubt that such coalition would be possible .
Hitler did not gamble that the fall of Moscow would result in the collapse of the Soviet government, because he was convinced of the opposite : the fall of the Soviet government would result in the fall of Moscow and he was right .
There was no country in WW2 that was defeated because the enemy occupied its capital .
Last point : US help and US intervention are two different things .

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Aida1
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by Aida1 » 01 Nov 2023 12:13

ljadw wrote:
31 Oct 2023 16:42

Hitler did not gamble that the fall of Moscow would result in the collapse of the Soviet government, because he was convinced of the opposite : the fall of the Soviet government would result in the fall of Moscow and he was right .
.
Tis is typical ljadw nonsense. :roll:

ljadw
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by ljadw » 01 Nov 2023 15:13

The text of Fall Barbarossa proves the opposite .

nota
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by nota » 12 Jan 2024 05:23

THEY LOST THE WAR WAY BEFORE IT BEGAN

by not being allied
the axis was doomed to be loose unorganized effort
with out a very needed total commitment by all nations
to a common goal and plan

in the real world it was every axis nation for themself
no pre action plans very little if any post action plan
italy went to war with out notice

the only real united efforts were the barbarossa border build up
but fatal flaw no japan plus japan no help but major hindrance by USA's entry
so even the one time they could have had a common goal they didNOT

the capitalist and commies united far stronger to a common goal quicker
and far more effectively at planning then any part of the axis ever even thought of doing

IF the west had not supplied the reds
and nazi's hid their evil until after the war
maybe but they could not hide evil they were long

ljadw
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Re: At what point did Germany lose WW2?

Post by ljadw » 12 Jan 2024 12:59

The Soviets would parade in Berlin even without Lend Lease .
About Japan : it remained neutral till 8 December 1941, as did the US and the Soviets remained neutral till 22 June 1941 .

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bradpit
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Re: After the Kurskoffensive!!!

Post by bradpit » 17 Jan 2024 10:44

TiKi wrote:
22 Sep 2002 01:26
I believe that the war was lost definitly after the Kurskoffensive!!

Stalingrad was a big success for the soviets, thats fact!
But when the germans prepare themself for the offensive at
Kurks / Phrokorovka(?) the generally tendence was good!

The russian defence at Krusk was heavily damaged and all reinforcementtroops were involved in the fightings!!
But suddenly the axis took 2 Elite-Divisions out of the front and so the defeat was definitly!

For my grandpa was that the breaking point! He thinks that the run of history in russia may changed when the 2 Divisions stayed in the kursk-area!
So its july/august 43´

Yust my 2cents

TiKi
Hitler better to adopt Manstein's backblow stratigic

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