Geli Raubal and Hitler relationship .. Please Help

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Hanfstengel
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Geli Raubal and Hitler relationship .. Please Help

#1

Post by Hanfstengel » 25 Nov 2006, 16:17

Hello Folks, i have just found this forum, and was wondering if anyone can help me on a question that has been bugging me for years now.
Firstly, i hope this is in the right section :-)
Can anyone provide more info, or give me some links to check out, that shed more light on the Relationship between Adolf and his Niece Angelika Raubal. There are so many stories going around as to what "May have happened" between the 2 of them. And the "apparant way" in which he treated her led her to take her own life. Can anyone shed some more light here. (Please, i am not looking for oppinions, but rather hard facts.)
Thanks in Advance. :D

StephanieSklar
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#2

Post by StephanieSklar » 26 Nov 2006, 15:33

There was a book out called "Geli and Adolf" or was it "Geli and Hitler", it has a pic of Geli w/her legs in a lake on it, in b&w.

I don't know if it is written in English or German though. Sorry!

Perhaps someone else will post a link.

Also I recently heard that she was 20 or 21 y-old when she was in that relationship. I saw a very bad tv movie about Hitler a while back and it seemed to be implied that Geli wasn't older than 16. American-made tv movies: not the best source of info about non-US history!


Hanfstengel
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#3

Post by Hanfstengel » 26 Nov 2006, 15:40

StephanieSklar wrote:There was a book out called "Geli and Adolf" or was it "Geli and Hitler", it has a pic of Geli w/her legs in a lake on it, in b&w.

I don't know if it is written in English or German though. Sorry!

Perhaps someone else will post a link.

Also I recently heard that she was 20 or 21 y-old when she was in that relationship. I saw a very bad tv movie about Hitler a while back and it seemed to be implied that Geli wasn't older than 16. American-made tv movies: not the best source of info about non-US history!
:D Cheers for that, Yes i agree, the Yanks are`nt really reliable when it comes to... well.... anything really :-)
LOL :-)
I found some "Propogander" info last night that said that Geli was 15 when she went to Berlin with "Uncle Dolfi" and that he kept her caged up and only wanted her for sex orgies, and that there is still no Clear evidence that confirms that she commited suicide !!
If you do manage to find this book, or have any more info, PLS get in contact !! Greets from The Alps to CA :-)

Brumbar
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#4

Post by Brumbar » 26 Nov 2006, 19:05

StephanieSklar wrote:There was a book out called "Geli and Adolf" or was it "Geli and Hitler", it has a pic of Geli w/her legs in a lake on it, in b&w.

I don't know if it is written in English or German though. Sorry!

Perhaps someone else will post a link.

Also I recently heard that she was 20 or 21 y-old when she was in that relationship. I saw a very bad tv movie about Hitler a while back and it seemed to be implied that Geli wasn't older than 16. American-made tv movies: not the best source of info about non-US history!
The book (written in English) is called Hitler and Geli, by Ronald Hayman: ISBN 1-58234-008-0

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Mimi
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Hitler and Geli

#5

Post by Mimi » 09 Feb 2007, 05:32

There are many stories about the couple and none is the same as the previous one. If you want to try to make up your mind about it you can read this site which is well researched and apparently objective : http://schikelgruber.net/sexbis.html

Ian Sayer
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#6

Post by Ian Sayer » 16 Feb 2007, 11:06

You might also have a look at Hitler & Women (Women who knew Hitler US Edition) by Ian Sayer & Douglas Botting.
Regards
Ian

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Geli
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#7

Post by Geli » 18 Feb 2007, 23:04

Try this one, for a chapter on Geli:

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Third-Reich ... F8&s=books

Also, Anna Maria Sigmund wrote a book called Des Führer's Bester Freund, about the Adolf Hitler - Geli Raubal - Emil Maurice triangle. As far as I know, that one has not been translated into English.

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Geli
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Re: Geli Raubal and Hitler relationship .. Please Help

#8

Post by Geli » 18 Feb 2007, 23:12

Hanfstengel wrote:There are so many stories going around as to what "May have happened" between the 2 of them. And the "apparant way" in which he treated her led her to take her own life. Can anyone shed some more light here. (Please, i am not looking for oppinions, but rather hard facts.)
"Hard facts" will be tough to find. I've decided to accept the reality that none of us alive today will ever know the "real" story.

michael mills
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#9

Post by michael mills » 23 Feb 2007, 00:39

The lurid stories about the relationship between Hitler and Geli Raubal, insinuating some sort of perverted sexual basis to it, originate from two sources, Ernst Hanfstaengl and Otto Strasser, both former supporters of Hitler who had fallen out with him and become his bitter enemies.

They told their stories at a time when they were providing information to the United States Government for the purpose of "black propaganda", and hence cannot be accepted as reliable.

The most likely truth is that Hitler's relationship with Geli was that of an over-protective father, who prevents his daughter from having fun with the boys and tries to keep her tied to him.

Far from her being his "one true love", it appears that it was she who had a crush on him, quite a common phenomenon for young inexperienced women who are in close proximity to a powerful, dominating, charismatic older man.

At the time when Geli was living in Hitler's apartment in Munich, he had already commenced his sexual relationship with Eva Braun. It appears that Geli found a note from Eva to Hitler that revealed to her that relationship, and that was the trigger that impelled her to commit suicide using Hitler's pistol, which he kept in the apartment.

The most sober interpretation of the available data is that the relationship between Geli and Hitler had no sexual element, although Geli may have wanted it to.

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Geli
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#10

Post by Geli » 24 Feb 2007, 07:19

michael mills wrote:The lurid stories...originate from two sources, Ernst Hanfstaengl and Otto Strasser, both former supporters of Hitler who had fallen out with him and become his bitter enemies...cannot be accepted as reliable.
From the reading I've done, I would agree with that.
michael mills wrote:The most likely truth is that Hitler's relationship with Geli was that of an over-protective father, who prevents his daughter from having fun with the boys and tries to keep her tied to him.

Far from her being his "one true love", it appears that it was she who had a crush on him, quite a common phenomenon for young inexperienced women who are in close proximity to a powerful, dominating, charismatic older man..
My problem with this theory is that Hitler told Heinrich Hoffman that he "loved Geli and could marry her." Hoffman had a good relationship with Hitler. Also, Emil Maurice said that he believed Hitler was in love with Geli. (Maurice's relationship with Hitler was a rocky one -- because of Geli.).
michael mills wrote:At the time when Geli was living in Hitler's apartment in Munich, he had already commenced his sexual relationship with Eva Braun. It appears that Geli found a note from Eva to Hitler that revealed to her that relationship, and that was the trigger that impelled her to commit suicide using Hitler's pistol, which he kept in the apartment.
That story comes from the housekeeper, Anni Winter. Anni saw Geli find the note and throw it out. But, this action is subject to interpretation. It was her opinion that Geli was jealous, but did she really know what was going on in Geli's head? Was Geli really jealous of Eva as a rival lover, or merely jealous in the way that a daughter might be jealous if her divorced father started dating someone younger than she? Perhaps she was simply angry that her uncle restricted her social life, yet went running around with young women himself? Perhaps she felt trapped by his overprotectiveness?
michael mills wrote:The most sober interpretation of the available data is that the relationship between Geli and Hitler had no sexual element, although Geli may have wanted it to.
As I said above, none of us can ever know for sure. But it's intriguing to discuss the theories. :)

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#11

Post by Vikki » 25 Feb 2007, 08:05

Hello Geli and Michael,

Your information is interesting, and obviously more detailed than what is commonly known on the subject. As it's a subject of much speculation and probably misinformation, I think a posting of sources here would be helpful. Preferably the primary sources--published or personal communications from the people who actually said the words, overheard the comments and actions, or saw firsthand, for example, the commencement of the "sexual relationship." Or at least the footnotes that cite the conversations that the information came from, for these specific statements in particular:

michael mills wrote:
At the time when Geli was living in Hitler's apartment in Munich, he had already commenced his sexual relationship with Eva Braun.
Geli wrote:
My problem with this theory is that Hitler told Heinrich Hoffman that he "loved Geli and could marry her."

Geli wrote:
michael mills wrote:
At the time when Geli was living in Hitler's apartment in Munich, he had already commenced his sexual relationship with Eva Braun. It appears that Geli found a note from Eva to Hitler that revealed to her that relationship, and that was the trigger that impelled her to commit suicide using Hitler's pistol, which he kept in the apartment.
That story comes from the housekeeper, Anni Winter. Anni saw Geli find the note and throw it out.

Best regards,
~Vikki

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#12

Post by manncer » 25 Feb 2007, 09:13

I am listening to a book about Hitler titled "Explaining Hitler" by Ron Rosenbaum which has quite a bit to say about the relationship. FYI

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#13

Post by Brumbar » 25 Feb 2007, 18:42

Vikki wrote:Hello Geli and Michael,

Your information is interesting, and obviously more detailed than what is commonly known on the subject. As it's a subject of much speculation and probably misinformation, I think a posting of sources here would be helpful. Preferably the primary sources--published or personal communications from the people who actually said the words, overheard the comments and actions, or saw firsthand, for example, the commencement of the "sexual relationship." Or at least the footnotes that cite the conversations that the information came from, for these specific statements in particular:

michael mills wrote:
At the time when Geli was living in Hitler's apartment in Munich, he had already commenced his sexual relationship with Eva Braun.
Geli wrote:
My problem with this theory is that Hitler told Heinrich Hoffman that he "loved Geli and could marry her."

Geli wrote:
michael mills wrote:
At the time when Geli was living in Hitler's apartment in Munich, he had already commenced his sexual relationship with Eva Braun. It appears that Geli found a note from Eva to Hitler that revealed to her that relationship, and that was the trigger that impelled her to commit suicide using Hitler's pistol, which he kept in the apartment.
That story comes from the housekeeper, Anni Winter. Anni saw Geli find the note and throw it out.

Best regards,
~Vikki

With regards to Mr. Mills' timing of it stated above, it is interesting to note that Hayman (at page 208) dates the inititial sexual congress of Hitler and Fraulein Braun to 1932, "about four months after Geli's death".

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Geli
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#14

Post by Geli » 28 Mar 2007, 05:30

Vikki wrote:As it's a subject of much speculation and probably misinformation, I think a posting of sources here would be helpful...
Regarding my comment:
My problem with this theory is that Hitler told Heinrich Hoffman that he "loved Geli and could marry her."

From Hitler & Geli by Ronald Hayman, page 141:
"According to Hoffman, Hitler replied: You know, Hoffman, I'm so concerned about Geli's future that I feel I have to watch over her. I love Geli and could marry her. Good! But you know what my viewpoint is. I want to remain single. So I retain the right to exert an influence on her circle of friends until such time as she finds the right man. What Geli sees as compulsion is simply prudence. I want to stop her from falling into the hands of someone unsuitable."
The footnotes in Hitler & Geli cite Hoffman's writings Friend and Hitler wie ich ihn sah.

Regarding:
...Geli found a note from Eva to Hitler that revealed to her that relationship, and that was the trigger that impelled her to commit suicide...
And my response:
That story comes from the housekeeper, Anni Winter. Anni saw Geli find the note and throw it out.

According to Hitler & Geli, the story of Geli finding the note was from Heinrich Hoffman's Hitler wie ich ihn sah, in which Heinrich Hoffman quoted Anni Winter. And actually, my memory deceived me a bit; Anni did not see Geli throw the note away. Here is the quote from Hitler & Geli:
"In Hoffman's account of what Anni Winter told him...While they [Anni & Geli] were tidying Hitler's room together, she searched in the pockets of a jacket he had been wearing and found a handwritten letter on blue paper. She read it and tore it angrily into four pieces which she left on the table, where he could not fail to see them."

Hope this helps my fellow Geli-ologists out there. :D Hoffman's memoirs in the original German are probably a wonderful source, but I haven't had the opportunity to read them. (My German is not fluent.)

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Geli
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#15

Post by Geli » 28 Mar 2007, 05:47

Brumbar wrote:With regards to Mr. Mills' timing of it stated above, it is interesting to note that Hayman (at page 208) dates the inititial sexual congress of Hitler and Fraulein Braun to 1932, "about four months after Geli's death".
Since Michael hasn't responded yet, I don't know what his source for the story was. But in Hayman's book, the contents of that letter from Eva Braun are:
Dear Herr Hitler,
Thanks you again for the wonderful invitation to the theatre. It was a memorable evening. I am most grateful to you for your kindness. I am counting the hours until I may have the joy of another meeting.
Yours,
Eva


Again, the footnotes say that this quote was from the mouth of Anni Winter (who pieced together the note after Geli ripped it into four quarters) to the ear of Heinrich Hoffman, who quoted Winter in Hitler wie ich ihn sah.

Thus, the note may have proven that Hitler was dating Eva Braun, but it said nothing of a sexual relationship. According to Anni Winter...according to Heinrich Hoffman...according to Ronald Hayman... :?

If anyone out there has a copy of Heinrich Hoffman's book and can provide us with this little story in the original Deutsch, I'd love to see the quote in Hoffman's words.

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