Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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Bernd R
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Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Bernd R » 13 Jul 2007 08:30

Hi all,

half an input, half a request. It is about the Heeresschule für Nachrichtenhelferinnen (HSNH), Gießen (sept 1940 - 1944).

Have a look on this site with some very nice photos : http://www.bunkermuseum-hansa.de/Zeitgeschichte1.html
Here is a book review (in german) : Anna Kallsperger, "Führerinnen-Generationen ? Überlegungen zur Vergesellschaftung von Frauen im Nationalsozialismus : http://hsozkult.geschichte.hu-berlin.de ... nen&id=331

First site is mentioning Oberst Theodor von Brincken as commander of the school. Anyone knows more detailed data on him (time of command) ?
Book review is mentioning Leni Ullmann , Hauptführerin der Nachrichtenhelferinnen des Heeres. Said to have been the #2 of the school. Anyone knows more about her and maybe more on women in the command staff of the school ?

Thanks, Bernd

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Vikki
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Post by Vikki » 11 Aug 2007 21:19

Bernd,

It is a great site! Torsten (Heimatschuss) has reposted several of the photos from the site on Helferin topics here in the Women's section. I especially like the photos of the Helfs in Paris!

I'd wondered about Oberst von Brincken too, but haven't been able to find any other information on him. But his signature and title appears on service documents issued by the school (see the closeup below of the signature on a Diensturkunde in my collection, and the one on the site at http://www.bunkermuseum-hansa.de/Bilder/Urkunde.jpg where the signature more clearly begins with a "B"). From the dates of several of these documents I know of, he served in this position from at least 31.1.42 through 29.2.44.

Best,
~Vikki
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Bernd R
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Post by Bernd R » 12 Aug 2007 12:01

Thank you very much, Vikki :D
Good piece about the dates and very nice Urkunden insights !

Interestingly one has "Giessen" and the other "Gießen" (we always have some spelling struggle in the ABR forum).
The official website of the city has -> Gießen

regards, Bernd

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Vikki
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Post by Vikki » 13 Aug 2007 00:53

You're very welcome, Bernd. Sometimes the "material culture" side can help out the historical side. :wink: Not definite start and end dates of service, but at least it gives you an idea.

Best,
~Vikki

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Matt Gibbs
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 03 Oct 2007 20:36

I'm starting to think some of the photos from the album I bought are taken at this school, the building types, the wooded area, etc. No doubt the lady concerned ended up there, but must dig out here ID book to check.
ttfn

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Bernd R
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Post by Bernd R » 22 Oct 2007 14:43

Hi Matt,

please excuse me, I just noticed your reply. Any input is much appreciated !

Bernd

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Matt Gibbs
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 22 Oct 2007 18:15

Hello Bernd
Forgot about this till I saw yr reply.
However, just dug out her service book for you to have a look.
She did indeed go to the School at Giessen. I will write out the entry in the book for you to decipher.

N.H Einsatzbereitschaft 173 [this is a rubber stamp]
H.S.N.H GieBen/?ahn [handwritten hard to read!]
10 September 1944

The next entry states HeeresSchule fur Nachtrichtenhelferinnen
NH-?iuf Abt 65
23.9.44

best wishes
Matt

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Bernd R
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Post by Bernd R » 23 Oct 2007 23:42

Thanks, Matt !

first entry is to read : "Gießen / Lahn" ; it is the river Lahn
So, obviously she started her school career on 10. sept 1944 first.

Bernd :D

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Matt Gibbs
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 25 Oct 2007 19:32

Bernd,
Thats interesting actually, because I only wrote for you the entries I could see mentioned the Giessen school.
Actually her service started on 24.6.42

The date under the heading - zur HeeresSchule fur Nachtrichtenhelferinnen versezt am 18.8.42 - then there is a rubber stamp and another entry

NH-?6 abt.II Rugen
16.9.42

best wishes
Matt

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Bernd R
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Re: Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Bernd R » 30 Apr 2008 18:27

To all interested parties. The command of Oberst von Brincken has been solved. :D
Kdr
16.10.1940 - [1.2.1945 , date of documentation] OTL / O (1.8.42) Theodor von Brincken
See the complete Stellenbesetzung as of Stand 1.2.45 here :
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 5#p1206575
Unfortunately no women are listed in this document.

source : NARA Rolle T78R866

Jan-Hendrik and Bernd

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Heimatschuss » 20 Dec 2010 20:55

Hello Vikki!
Vikki wrote: I'd wondered about Oberst von Brincken too, but haven't been able to find any other information on him.
Meanwhile more stuff is online and I've found something interesting on his earlier life. According to Kampe (1999, p.256) von Brincken was already involved with the training of female signals auxiliaries during and after WWI, then called Weibliches Nachrichtenkorps. He's an excerpt from the book
... Im April 1919 hatte diese Armee [AOK Grenzschutz Nord, Torsten] bereits eine Stärke von 103.000 Mann erreicht, während dem in Schlesien handelnden Armeeoberkommando Süd Verbände mit einer Gesamtstärke von 106.200 Mann unterstanden. Und auch diese Armee und ihre Verbände verfügten über freiwillige Nachrichtenformationen. Für die Nordarmee formierte sich Anfang Mai 1919 auch ein weibliches Nachrichtenkorps im ostreußischen Seebad Cranz unter Hauptmann Möller. Das Korps bestand aus einer Betriebsabteilung und einer Schule, die im Oktober 1919 nach Königsberg ins alte Fort Quednau übersiedelte. Zu den Offizieren dieser Lehreinrichtung zählte übrigens auch der spätere Oberst und Kommandeur der Schule für Wehrmacht-Nachrichtenhelferinnen in Gießen, Rittmeister von Brincken. Bis zur Auflösung des weiblichen Nachrichtenkorps im Herbst 1920 wurden in Cranz und Königsberg 537 Frauen im Alter von 18 bis 38 Jahren als Fernsprecherinnen, Fernschreiberinnen bzw. Funkerinnen ausgebildet. ....
According to an essay by von Gersdorff in the Wehrwissenschaftliche Rundschau (1967) the then Cpt. von Brincken was actually commander of the school in Cranz/Königsberg. Some fragments of the article are visible with this link http://tinyurl.com/3xtwvpf, the article obviously contains more details on these early Nachrichtenhelferinnen and may be worth reading for anyone interested in the subject.

Afterwards von Brincken seems to have been outside the active military because he's later just listed as Ergänzungsoffizier (militia officer) when returning to the service as an instructor at the Army Signals School in Halle. See http://forum.panzer-archiv.de/viewtopic ... 218#172218
Major (E) 01.03.35 von BRINCKEN Theodor (Lehrer Heeresnachrichtenschule Halle/S) Oberst (01.08.42)
As it seems von Brincken then continued his career at the school in Halle after 1935 and from May till Oct 1940 was commander of their HQ battalion (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1#p1074291) before taking over the school in Giessen.

No trace of him so far after 1945. He may be identical to a high-school student in the last class at Blankenburg in 1907 (http://forum.ahnenforschung.net/showthread.php?t=24150). A high-school degree in 1907 would be sufficient to become a Cpt. in 1920. But it's just a vague theory so far of course.

References:

Kampe, Hans-Georg
Nachrichtentruppe des Heeres und Deutsche Reichspost.
Militärisches und staatliches Nachrichtenwesen in Deutschland 1830 bis 1945
Projekt + Verlag Meißler; Waldesruh bei Berlin; 1999

von Gersdorff, Ursula (1967)
Frauen in der Nachrichtentruppe 1918 - 1920.
Wehrwissenschaftliche Rundschau; Vol.18; 1967; p.229-236

Best regards
Torsten

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Matt Gibbs
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Re: Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Matt Gibbs » 21 Jan 2011 10:39

Hi Torsten, thats very interesting reading, and although my item is a tenuous connection to the school it makes me wonder just a little about this fellow. I bet his uniform and awards ribbon bar might have been interesting considering his length of service.
Regards
Matt

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Heimatschuss » 22 Jan 2011 11:39

Hello Matt,

there's a photo of von Brincken in the lage Helferinnen thread showing him during a parade. Unfortunately it's too small to recognize any particular awards.
Matt Gibbs wrote: The next entry states HeeresSchule fur Nachtrichtenhelferinnen
NH-?iuf Abt 65
23.9.44
That's a handwritten entry I presume. It should be NH-Eins.Abt. 65 (= Nachrichtenhelferinnen-Einsatzabteilung 65). Very easy to confuse letters when it comes to Sütterlin.
The date under the heading - zur HeeresSchule fur Nachtrichtenhelferinnen versezt am 18.8.42 - then there is a rubber stamp and another entry

NH-?6 abt.II Rugen
16.9.42
On Rügen island was one of the training centres for Marinehelferinnen. I'll have to dig through my notes on how he
Nachtrichtenhelferinnen were connected to the early Marinehelferinnen.

Best regards
Torsten

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Matt Gibbs
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Re: Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Matt Gibbs » 25 Jan 2011 22:52

Thanks Torsten, how did you guess the handwriting is hard to decypher! :D
I must get around to scanning a few of the photos of the buildings. I am sure it just has to be Rugen based on the buildings in some of the pics, half completed. It does explain why their are naval uniforms in some of the photographs though so many thanks for that info.
Regards
Matt

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Nachrichtenhelferinnen / school in Gießen

Post by Heimatschuss » 25 Jan 2011 23:35

Hi Matt,
Matt Gibbs wrote:Thanks Torsten, how did you guess the handwriting is hard to decypher! :D
I must get around to scanning a few of the photos of the buildings. I am sure it just has to be Rugen based on the buildings in some of the pics, half completed. It does explain why their are naval uniforms in some of the photographs though so many thanks for that info.
Regards
Matt
buildings not finshed yet sound like the giant hotel complex at Prora on Rügen. The building was to be 3 miles long, lots of stuff on it on the internet. That's indeed where the school for Marinehelferinnen was.

Best regards
Torsten

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