1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
ignacioosacar
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1945 Lost German girl

Postby ignacioosacar » 05 Nov 2008 18:07

Has anyone identified the German girl who appears under the ittle "1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL" in Utube wearing regulation pants and braces and a black t-shirt. She seems to be under 30, taking into account the war aging effect and the terrible experiences she might have suffered. A second thread shows her sitting with other prisioners and someone has given her a handkerchief and ice(?). Probably a helfering ? I suppose that she might be identificable today given the close range shooting of the film and the fact she is her very attractive.

Thank you all



[video added /Marcus]

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Vikki
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Vikki » 07 Nov 2008 04:07

Hello ignacioosacar,

Are you speaking of the film clip that dragoner posted the link to on this thread?:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=145237

I don't know whether it's original or modern, or anything else about it either, and I'd also be interested if anyone else does.

Best,
~Vikki

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby mikel » 07 Nov 2008 05:53

That clip was in the final episode of the epic "World At War"
BBC series from a while back.
Showed a lot of aftermath stuff briefly and there was a reference about rape victims where this particular sequence showed.
No more details were given.

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 07 Nov 2008 11:53

Dear Vikki and Michael,

Yes, we are all talking about the same film.

Thank you for your attention.

Ignacio

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Inselaffe » 07 Nov 2008 18:27

mikel wrote:That clip was in the final episode of the epic "World At War"


Yes, definitely from 'The World at War'. I can't find my VHS copy of this( :oops: ) to check the episode but I'm pretty certain Mikel is right.

mikel wrote:BBC series from a while back.


Not BBC, ITV/Thames Television though I think the BBC have shown it.Easy to confuse. Repeated endlessly on TV in the UK but justifiably I think, still brilliant! As it was made in the late 60s and early 70s it predates the era of rubbish 'reconstructions' so should be genuine footage. If I recall correctly this is part of a sequence of good quality colour footage that also shows refugees and a German unit surrendering. If someone can have a look at the episode, especially on DVD with notes etc. more information may be forthcoming. I've got a vague recollection that the film of the unit surrendering has been discussed somewhere on this forum.....

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"It was like Hungary being between Germany and the Soviet Union. What sort of choice was that? Which language would you like your firing squad to speak?" Tibor Fischer 'Under the Frog'.

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 07 Nov 2008 23:22

Dear Forum:

The "World at War " has been fully uploaded in Utube , so you all can enjoy it. I will go into it so as to check this part.

Does any of the experts ( I am not) shares my observations about the girl regarding:
1. She has a military status (helfering? ) so she was lined up with other POW uniformed personnel
2. No tunic. Lost or thrown away to hide service branch ? SS helfering ?
3. The men with her are not young at all, and strangely they have no shoulder straps, breast or shoulder eagles, insignia, medals, nothing, even thou they have obviously just surrendered.
4. The girl pants fit very tightly around her waist, so she has no need for the braces. Normally military pants are issued one ( or two!) sizes bigger than the actual waist measure ( worldwide procedure !). Besides most of the fly buttons are missing.
5. Are they really German pants ? Or borrowed it from some compassionate allied troops . Not the same first line troops who beated her, of course.
6. The long sleeved black T-shirt . Is it civilian or miitary ?
6. What does she hold between her hands ? In the first seconds of the film she is hidding the object away from the camera, whatever that is. Later on it is very closely shown. They look like oversized cards. Anyhow they seem to be very precious to her.
7. Any idea of where this might be? Low hills in the background.

Too much guess work ? I suppose. That is why I am calling for the very expert oppinions.

Thank you all

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ozmatt » 07 Nov 2008 23:54

Hey guys,

I have also seen this footage fairly often in germany. I'm sure it was in one of Guido Knopp's documentaries and was attributed to the ethnic cleansing of the sudetenland by the czechs in 1945. Thats probably why there's a lack of insignia - they seem to be mainly civilians. The dead boy is certainly not military. Also, about the girl's clothes not fitting - I don't think they are hers...

Horrible footage that.

Maybe someone has more detailed info or just a better recollection than I do.

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby wimbalm » 11 Nov 2008 21:44

hello there,

on youtube, there is also this longer footage of 11 minutes, called ''Czechoslovakia 1945 in Color''. The fragment of the lost german girl is part of it. I think indeed this film was shot in Czechoslovakia (i guess by an usa-crew), during those chaotic days when german rule collapsed and some czech people took revenge immediately after the german forces withdrew (as you can see in the beginning of this footage. Notice that the withdrawing german soldiers seem irregular but are still armed) and cruelties were committed against individual german soldiers that stayed behind (the dead and wounded men that you see, are all german soldiers, i guess) and against german people who lived there (=this girl that seems to be raped and beaten up, and also that little boy that seems to be murdered).

wim balm (netherlands)

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 12 Nov 2008 03:04

Thank you Wim for your comments. I can imagine the chaos and the cruelty of revenge.

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Penn44 » 12 Nov 2008 08:41

wimbalm wrote:hello there,

...(=this girl that seems to be raped and beaten up ....).

wim balm (netherlands)


How do you reach the speculation she was "raped"?

Penn44

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby wimbalm » 12 Nov 2008 09:13

well, ofcourse i have no evidence for that raping, but i am afraid something like that did indeed happen to her (i think she is much younger than 30, to me she looks like some 20 years of age). What i can see in this short fragment is that (a) she has been severly beaten in the face, (b) she looks very confused and (c) she is not wearing her own clothes. Combined with the footage of dead bodies we can see earlier in this film, brutal violence has occured in this czech village that was finally (a few hours later? the day after?) liberated by us-forces. People that were able to commit these killings, would also have been able to rape.

wim

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby GerritPlug » 12 Nov 2008 22:58

The screen right after the scene with the girl shows a sign reading "P29 4/8/45 Haglund" with a US vehicle background, so we can date this to April 8th 1945. On 18 April, the 90th Infantry Division of XII Corps reached the old 1937 Czechoslovak border and sent elements on a raid into the country (http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/ww ... n1945.aspx). So there seems to be a 10 day time/place gap. Maybe the footage was shot just at a bordertown?

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby GerritPlug » 12 Nov 2008 23:16

just a brief follow up on the previous post: the 11 min footage is not in chronological order: 0:55 shows "P27 May 8" (following unarmed German soldiers being escorted by irregular troops); 4:29 shows P26/4/2/45 (following armed Germans retreating/moving west to surrender, they obviously did not attack the US film crew).

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby wimbalm » 13 Nov 2008 12:17

thank you very much, Gerrit!

you did a wonderful job. Maybe it is possible to dig a bit further now.

I also ran into this other fragment on youtube, called ''the end of the war, germany surrenders'', with a length of 3:17''.

again you can see withdrawing german soldiers, combined with this scene of the lost german girl, but there are also some other interesting fragments now, one on with you can see some german SS-soldiers on a truck, holding a czech flag, talking to a US soldier. This again indicates that the film was indeed shot in Czechoslovakia.

wim balm

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby wimbalm » 13 Nov 2008 21:12

on this site, these guys discussed the same footage:

http://patdollard.com/2008/08/help-id-r ... d-germans/


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