1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
wimbalm
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby wimbalm » 13 Nov 2008 22:43

i think i finally found the whole film over here, in the steven spielberg film and videoarchive:

http://resources.ushmm.org/film/display/main.php?search=advanced&dquery=Keyword(s)%3A+germans%2C+Color%3A+Yes&cache_file=uia_TvilWX&total_recs=107&page_len=25&page=4&rec=97&file_num=4686

this Haglund must have been the us-cameraman who shot the film, indeed in Czechoslovakia. The footage of the german girl, here descripted as a '''SS girl'', stems from may 8, 1945:

01:07:28: Slate reading: " Haglund, P 27, May 8." A long line of POWs walks down a street. According to the original shot sheet, these may be "white Russians who fought for Germany" but it is not entirely clear that this is the scene referenced on the sheet. Many of the men look into the camera. Some of them are quite young. The vantage point changes to the back of the line of prisoners. A group of civilians follows behind them. Some of them run to catch up with the prisoners. Close-up of a Russian soldier on horseback. Another (longer) view of a column of prisoners walking along a two lane road in the countryside with fields on either side of the road (Germans or "white Russians who fought for Germany"). The camera moves closer to the prisoners, then follows them from behind. Back in town, another group of prisoners, in horse-drawn wagons, then trucks, pass the camera. More prisoners, on foot and horseback, who may be "Poles who were forced to fight for Nazis." Shots of individual dead SS men, killed by the Czechs, lying on the grass. Some of the men are badly wounded but not yet dead. A group of people stands around a wounded man who raises his head briefly. A dead body with blood on his face lies with Haglund's identifying slate beside his head. Several more shots of dead and severely wounded Germans. A woman described in the shot sheet as an "SS girl" walks down the road. She has been beaten and one eye is swollen shut. Several shots of her as she walks toward the camera. She clasps her hands (she appears to be holding a deck of playing cards) and looks down. The camera pans down her body. A half-naked man with blood on his face lies on the grass and looks at the camera. Another shot of the same woman. She sits on the grass with two men and another man stands in front of them. A group of American soldiers stand and look down at the corpse of a young boy in a German military coat. A white handkerchief is placed over the face of another dead man. Various scenes with smiling Czech civilians. Two young girls, surrounded by German POWs are filmed close-up. They look nervously at the camera (accused collaborators?).

wim

Peeter
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Peeter » 13 Nov 2008 22:46

German soldiers on the video are without insignia, eagles, etc, because czech communists started to search for SS men and officers, beating them to death. So everybody took off everything that could irritate the mob, throwing away also their soldbuchs. It happened 8th and 9th of may, when war was already over and German (and Estonian) troops throw away their weapons and tried to move away from oncoming red army and surrender to americans. Amongst Estonian veterans it is called "Czech hell" and is described in almost every book of veterans memories. Many German and Estonian boys, coming from east front, were killed on those days, also there was executed Estonian KC holder Paul Maitla together with his staff.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78718&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

ozmatt
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ozmatt » 14 Nov 2008 17:47

Thats an excellent find Wimbalm! It seems to me the key to locating the "scene of the crime" is the cameraman Haglund. On the same archive you linked to is another sequence shot by Haglund between 27.March and 24.April in Köln, Remagen and at Stalag VIIa at Moosburg. The next sequence then begins with this shooting in the Sudetenland.

It appears that Haglund was a cameraman for the USAAF (if indeed the name on the plates does indicate the cameraman and not some higher "unit", but it seems to). I have contacted the National Archives and Records Administration requesting help to identify Haglund and thereby the unit he was attached to. See what they say...

Near the end of the footage is a column of shermans but I couldn't make out any insignia. Possibly 16th armoured division in SW Sudetenland or in the Pilsen area????

On a side note, it is amazing how this footage, particularly the full length version at ushmm.org, documents visually precisely the recollections of the Estonian soldiers given in the thread linked to by Peeter - very many of the german POWs have had their boots stolen by the czechs and/or russians while some columns are still armed and seem in relatively good order. The cameraman seems to have no trouble in locating numerous executed and still dying POWs and there are also alot of the czech militia wearing the red armbands exactly as described by the estonian SS men.

Anyways...Cheers

wimbalm
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby wimbalm » 15 Nov 2008 10:00

maybe there is also another possibility to obtain more detailed info about exact time and place. On:

http://www.radio.cz/en/article/97385/limit

I found this czech press release of the 9th of november 2007:

US Ambassador Richard Graber presented the National Film Archives director on Friday with unique footage shot by American soldiers in western Bohemia right after the end of the war. The footage, which had not been seen in the country before, will be identified, analyzed, and publicly screened in the very places where they were filmed.

Three reels of film changed hands in the American Center in Prague on Friday morning as US Ambassador Richard Graber presented some unique footage taken by American soldiers in May 1945 in Western Bohemia to Vladimir Opela, the director of the Czech National Film Archives. Besides other scenes, the silent clips show General Patton surveying troops at a field airport near Plzen, German prisoners-of-war being driven away by US military, and a meeting of American and Soviet soldiers on the demarcation line in the area. Ambassador Richard Graber.
"We certainly try to cooperate as often as we can. When we can provide some clips such as these, it's something that we are very pleased to do, to be able to share it with the people of this country."
The films were shot by US troops who had received some basic training in filmmaking, and are especially rare because at the time of filming following May 5, 1945, no other footage was taken because the area was closed off due to combat operations. They were included in the American National Archives' film collection, with which Czech film historians have been cooperating closely. Vladimir Opela is the head of the Czech National Film Archives.
"Our colleague, the American archivist William Murphy was here two years ago when he brought footage of the liberation of western Bohemia and Plzen. He kept his promise and sent these materials. They depict the beginnings of normal life after the war, German prisoners of war and also, which was very interesting, footage of meetings of the American and Soviet armies."
General Patton General Patton
Now the footage will be analyzed by historians to identify the dates and locations of the film clips. After that, the National Film Archives is planning to screen them publicly at the actual places where they were filmed, as they did with materials they had received from their American colleagues in the past. This will keep alive the memory of the US troops that liberated the western parts of Czechoslovakia, a fact denied by the Communists. Ambassador Richard Graber says the US Embassy is proud to participate.
"We certainly do everything we can every year to participate in liberation day ceremonies that take place across the country; we go to countless events of that sort. I think it's very important to remember what went on there, remember the sacrifices that the people of this country endured, the sacrifices that our soldiers in the United States endured, and other countries as well, in what was an incredibly important period of time and history."

Weeping Infantryman
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Weeping Infantryman » 23 Nov 2008 04:59

I saw this clip a while ago and it scarred me to this day. She just looks so confused, so sad. I think the clothes are civillian, but I am not sure. But anyway, it is a very haunting clip for me.

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Bodger
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Bodger » 27 Nov 2008 21:46

Is there any way of viewing the footage from the Speilberg archive in a larger (full scree, perhaps?) format.

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Annelie
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Annelie » 27 Nov 2008 21:57

I saw this clip a while ago and it scarred me to this day. She just looks so confused, so sad. I think the clothes are civillian, but I am not sure. But anyway, it is a very haunting clip for me.



Strange how we all see things differently. I see a women whom probably went through terrible things but she
is a survivor and there is a look of defiance and strength about her. Not one who would easily give up.

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 30 Nov 2008 14:08

Dear Annelie,

I share your point of view absolutely. I still wonder how this girl - and others like her - carried on with their lives.

Thank you for your comment

Ignacio

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Mauser K98k
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Mauser K98k » 02 Dec 2008 05:17

ignacioosacar wrote:Dear Annelie,

I share your point of view absolutely. I still wonder how this girl - and others like her - carried on with their lives.

Ignacio


Just one of millions of stories we'll never know about.:(

Often while watching a film clip of soldiers I'll focus on a random face and wonder to myself what that man's story was.
Who was he? What was his name? Did he survive the war? Where and how did he die?

Hopefully, this German Girl made it back to her home and was able to salvage a good life in the post-war rebuild of Germany.

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Penn44
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Penn44 » 02 Dec 2008 06:58

Annelie wrote:
I saw this clip a while ago and it scarred me to this day. She just looks so confused, so sad. I think the clothes are civillian, but I am not sure. But anyway, it is a very haunting clip for me.


Strange how we all see things differently. I see a women whom probably went through terrible things but she
is a survivor and there is a look of defiance and strength about her. Not one who would easily give up.


You all have a vivid imagination.

Now, what I see is a woman who should not have been part of an army of conquest, and then lose the war.

As far as speculating what she did after the war: after her obviously failed career in the SS, she probably became one of the many German girls who hung outside American Kasernes in Germany performing all kinds of feats for candy bars and cigarettes. If she was lucky, she married an American, and moved to the US.

Obviously, she is no Max Schmeling, however, she would have benefitted had she implemented a little of that "bobbing” and “weaving" boxing technique in order to avoid some of those punches she received.

Penn44

.
I once was told that I was vain, but I knew that vanity was a fault, so I gave it up because I have no faults.

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Annelie
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Annelie » 02 Dec 2008 12:55

Penn, it seems your the one with the vivid imagination.
One day you will forget to bob and weave.

ozmatt
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ozmatt » 02 Dec 2008 15:49

Penn44 wrote:
As far as speculating what she did after the war: after her obviously failed career in the SS, she probably became one of the many German girls who hung outside American Kasernes in Germany performing all kinds of feats for candy bars and cigarettes. If she was lucky, she married an American, and moved to the US.

Obviously, she is no Max Schmeling, however, she would have benefitted had she implemented a little of that "bobbing” and “weaving" boxing technique in order to avoid some of those punches she received.

Penn44

.


Oooh, someone seems to have a little chip on their shoulder. How sweet.

She looks the resilient type to me. I'm sure she made it out and took part in rebuilding her country into the successful and respected nation it is today. Probably even settled down into a nice family life and had some lovely children.

But don't let me stop you wallowing in your bitterness.

Cheers,
Matt

Peeter
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Peeter » 02 Dec 2008 21:46

Amazing, how cynic some people can be...
See also this, very closely connected.
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=78718&start=45

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 02 Dec 2008 22:54

Dear Forum,

The nameless German girl has an attitude that clearly shows that she is strongly determined to be victorious in peace. And very probably was.

Bye

Ignacio

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dragoner
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby dragoner » 03 Dec 2008 03:47

Thank you all for your information and links.

regards


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