1945 Lost German girl

[lawton]

Never be sure tshat they have "passed" (died) - within the last twelve months I have shaken hands with a Lady who shook hands with AH as a child... in the mid 30s.... this occured in 2014.

True - there is always a small possibility I guess for a couple of more years.

[Mikaela]

Dear forum,
I will be very short today here is the link from the opening. You can see some pictures from my summary on this Facebook site
https://www.facebook.com/parablau?fref=photo

I can upload all three sheets on some web page where everyone can download it and see it clearly. The sheets are 3m long so the files are big. What kind of uploader do you prefer?
Bye Mikaela

[hdarek]

Awsome work Mikaela,
keep us posted

Thanks

[Adibach]

fantastic work..the facebook page is amazing

[Topspeed]

i read today old news at this site: http://www.verkkouutiset.fi/arkisto/Ark ... so5100.htm
because anyone not know what is actually this women nationality.. i can say that, over than 12 000 finn women worked germany factory or other work perhaps army and about 400-500 women nurses operate after 1944 in nazi germany.
this finn site says anyone not knows who worked and where becasue many left finland and travel nazi germany independently without permission or report...
(fear Soviet Union occupation)

I agree she could be a finn ( looks 99 % )...from Oulu region and left Finland for Germany...she is wearing his ex-husband trousers and husband killed by the enemy. Possibly spoke fluent german as it was taught in schools in Finland at that time. They had a big army base in Finland in Oulu until 1944 when the Lapland's War started.

Another possibility is the White Russian ( ROE ) wife whose husband has been "missing" and left the herd which went to Lichtenstein..trying to hitchhike somewhere.

[fhafha]

Hi all, it's a long time but many deployements...I booked my fly yesterday and will be on a short trip to Praha and Plezen from 7 to 10 May 2015. A kind of staff ride for the senventyth end of WWII anniversary. I plan to head each LGG's places and may be meet some veterans !

a list of what to do ?

regards

[awolatlarge]

if i may, i would like to point out something that will probably not make me popular on this thread but i respect your research and genuine concern for "lgg" and i hate seeing good people being duped. first of all, the filmmaker, oren w hagland, was born in 1905. we're told he enlisted in 1941 at age 36. odd, seems a little old to be enlisting in the army. didn't he have a job? he certainly did, a good one, too. he started in the art department of a major movie studio as props guy sometime on or before 1931 and advanced to assistant director of some of the biggest movies at the time.that seems odd, too, looking at his appearance. he looks older than he is, not in shape to be going through bootcamp and then deployed to a wartime theater. and at that age, to just quit making major motion pictures for probably a sizeable salary to join the army, risk death or injury to just get film of the action? and for what i have to imagine is substantially less of a salary? that doesn't make sense. in the video, if you look at the "dead soldiers" in the close up shots, they are breathing, you can see the abdomen rise and fall. the ones who are laying in the grass and "still alive", though having appeared to have suffered some truama, look at their eyes. they are clear and bright, not the wild or bloodshot eyes of someone near death. these people do not reach out for help or even try to crawl to safety like you would expect from a person who is injured and out in the open with the possibility of those who injured him returning. and the cameraman, we are led to believe it is haglund, upon seeing the "dead or injured"person become conscious and look around, makes no move to assist, help, comfort, or care for them. nobody else does, either. they all stand around an injured person who is laying on the ground and looking around, but they make no move to help even though they are less than a foot away from him? this isn't consistent with basic human instinct. and finally, the lgg, herself. when the eye sustains a trauma of any magnitude to cause swelling and/or bruising, it swells the face around the eye as well. i know this for 2 reasons: my wife is a medical doctor, and i have been in numerous fights during the course of my life and have had both eyes blackened several times each. the "trauma" to her eye is not consistent with what you would expect from such an injury. closer visual evaluation reveals, in my opinion, that she is donning a prosthetic over her uninjured eye, especially near the end of the clip. a gap can be seen between the prosthetic and her face on the lower and left side. and her body language and actions are not those of a woman having just suffered physical violence and possibly rape. i know war is an extraordinary circumstance, but none of what is seen in this clip and what we know about its origins really makes sense in the context we are given to believe. but, if you change the context, just a little, suddenly what is seen in this clip makes a whole lot of sense. let's say for instance, the war department wanted to keep morale and support for their efforts high, they would want to make propaganda films that demonize the bad guys and show how their forces, the good guys, are the only thing between innocent people who look similar to the target audience and total annihilation. the war dept can't rely upon chance or the audience's ability to comprehend what it is they are seeing and that what they are seeing is the message you want them to see. they make damn sure by hiring a professional film maker to create the scenes that they want to show the audience that will achieve the desired effect. this professional would have experience in props and make up, also how to direct. no big time movie director would leave hollywood to risk life and limb making movies in a war zone and certainly not for the modest amount of money, by comparison, the war dept would be able to pay. however, a small time or assistant movie director might do it for that amount. they would have enough experience to get the job done and would not yet have the delusions of grandeur about who and what they are that one gets from being a big time director in hollywood. if you were the war dept in this scenario, guess who would be exactly what you were looking for to make your propaganda movie? thats right, folks. oren w. haglund. assistant director for a major movie studio, experience in make up and props, jumping at the chance to be the boss and direct his own movie, i imagine. now, what is seen in the clip makes total sense. it has all been staged for the sake of the audience. it probably was very effective. but i don't believe you will find the "lgg", either the character played by the actor or the actor who played the character. because she could as easily be american as european. and because this actor was probably made to sign a contract which included a non-disclosure about the work she was doing. she will not want to be found. this is just my opinion, but if you look objectively at the entire picture, so to speak, i believe you will have to agree with me. thanks for listening.

[Christian Ankerstjerne]

if i may, i would like to point out something that will probably not make me popular on this thread but i respect your research and genuine concern for "lgg" and i hate seeing good people being duped.

Your entire post is based on poor speculation. Also, it would be helpful to the reader if you would break up your post a little, and use proper capitalization.

first of all, the filmmaker, oren w hagland, was born in 1905. we're told he enlisted in 1941 at age 36. odd, seems a little old to be enlisting in the army.

A lot of people enlisted quite late. Jimmy Stewart was born in 1908.

didn't he have a job? he certainly did, a good one, too. he started in the art department of a major movie studio as props guy sometime on or before 1931 and advanced to assistant director of some of the biggest movies at the time.that seems odd, too, looking at his appearance. he looks older than he is, not in shape to be going through bootcamp and then deployed to a wartime theater.

Jimmy Stewart was rejected for being too skinny, before being allowed in. Also, the army needed men, and weren't always too picky about their physical condition.

and at that age, to just quit making major motion pictures for probably a sizeable salary to join the army, risk death or injury to just get film of the action? and for what i have to imagine is substantially less of a salary? that doesn't make sense.

Jimmy Stewart, again, who insisted on going on combat missions, despite being encouraged to help sell war bonds, and who continued to fly combat missions after he ended his tour and becade squadron commander. Also, David Niven, who flew back to England to join the Commandos. There were other celebrities too, who could have chosen not to fight, but who did. Having a lot of money does not mean that you don't have the same drive to enlist as those with less money.

in the video, if you look at the "dead soldiers" in the close up shots, they are breathing, you can see the abdomen rise and fall. the ones who are laying in the grass and "still alive", though having appeared to have suffered some truama, look at their eyes. they are clear and bright, not the wild or bloodshot eyes of someone near death. these people do not reach out for help or even try to crawl to safety like you would expect from a person who is injured and out in the open with the possibility of those who injured him returning.

Do you have any actual knowledge of dealing with combat casualties?

and the cameraman, we are led to believe it is haglund, upon seeing the "dead or injured"person become conscious and look around, makes no move to assist, help, comfort, or care for them.

This was common for war correspondants back then, and still is today. They are reporters, not medics.

nobody else does, either. they all stand around an injured person who is laying on the ground and looking around, but they make no move to help even though they are less than a foot away from him? this isn't consistent with basic human instinct.

Such behaviour is not uncommon, and has been documented in psycological studies.

and finally, the lgg, herself. when the eye sustains a trauma of any magnitude to cause swelling and/or bruising, it swells the face around the eye as well. i know this for 2 reasons: my wife is a medical doctor, and i have been in numerous fights during the course of my life and have had both eyes blackened several times each. the "trauma" to her eye is not consistent with what you would expect from such an injury.

Anecdotal evidence is not real evidence.

closer visual evaluation reveals, in my opinion, that she is donning a prosthetic over her uninjured eye, especially near the end of the clip. a gap can be seen between the prosthetic and her face on the lower and left side.

Do you have any actual knowledge of image analysis?

and her body language and actions are not those of a woman having just suffered physical violence and possibly rape.

Do you have any actual knowledge of the spectrum of possible reactions of rape victims?

i know war is an extraordinary circumstance, but none of what is seen in this clip and what we know about its origins really makes sense in the context we are given to believe. but, if you change the context, just a little, suddenly what is seen in this clip makes a whole lot of sense. let's say for instance, the war department wanted to keep morale and support for their efforts high, they would want to make propaganda films that demonize the bad guys and show how their forces, the good guys, are the only thing between innocent people who look similar to the target audience and total annihilation. the war dept can't rely upon chance or the audience's ability to comprehend what it is they are seeing and that what they are seeing is the message you want them to see. they make damn sure by hiring a professional film maker to create the scenes that they want to show the audience that will achieve the desired effect. this professional would have experience in props and make up, also how to direct. no big time movie director would leave hollywood to risk life and limb making movies in a war zone and certainly not for the modest amount of money, by comparison, the war dept would be able to pay. however, a small time or assistant movie director might do it for that amount. they would have enough experience to get the job done and would not yet have the delusions of grandeur about who and what they are that one gets from being a big time director in hollywood. if you were the war dept in this scenario, guess who would be exactly what you were looking for to make your propaganda movie? thats right, folks. oren w. haglund. assistant director for a major movie studio, experience in make up and props, jumping at the chance to be the boss and direct his own movie, i imagine. now, what is seen in the clip makes total sense. it has all been staged for the sake of the audience. it probably was very effective. but i don't believe you will find the "lgg", either the character played by the actor or the actor who played the character. because she could as easily be american as european. and because this actor was probably made to sign a contract which included a non-disclosure about the work she was doing. she will not want to be found. this is just my opinion, but if you look objectively at the entire picture, so to speak, i believe you will have to agree with me. thanks for listening.

Speculation based on speculation. If you can find any real evidence, maybe then you will get some attention to your points.

[fhafha]

It has been established that Hagland was a war reporter and enlisted due to his civilian skills and job has so many by the end of the war.

Nethertheless, the fact that Hagland may have pictured this video as a hollywood movie is possible. I can remember I was convinced that the specific LGG scene, when she is walking down the road was a prepared one and at the same location and time the others guies are seating in the field (on scene is without the LGG and one with and I established they were the same soldiers on both).

Also the scene when Halgand is discussing with the 2ss Rget commanding Officer is clearly filmed as a movie one.

But they are real german or axis characteres not professional actors making on the occasion the Hagland Show.

[DD66]

Quote "let's say for instance, the war department wanted to keep morale and support for their efforts high"

This was filmed the day the war ended, morale couldn't have been higher.


Quote "closer visual evaluation reveals, in my opinion, that she is donning a prosthetic over her uninjured eye"

It would seem that they even added swelling to her injured hand.

It all looks very real to me.

[history1]

[...] these people do not reach out for help or even try to crawl to safety like you would expect from a person who is injured and out in the open with the possibility of those who injured him returning.

I would like to se you crawling into "safety" with serious injuries or even a brain damage, when lying in the middle of your enemies.

and the cameraman,[...], makes no move to assist, help, comfort, or care for them. nobody else does, either. they all stand around an injured person who is laying on the ground and looking around, but they make no move to help even though they are less than a foot away from him? this isn't consistent with basic human instinct. [...]

Sorry for the OT justifications but have you ever seen a US cop shooting a suspect rendering first aid? Me not, in contrary the are even hand cuffing deadly wounded people before allowing medical staff to do reanimation.
In my country those cops would be accused based on §95 Criminal Code (Denial of assistance) and jailed for one year! They don´t even show basic human instincts towards their own countrymen, why would you expect this from a camera man then towards his foe ?

[FF7_12]

I think awolatlarge has a faulty calendar - it's not April 1 yet.....

[Mauser K98k]

"... we are led to believe it is haglund, upon seeing the "dead or injured"person become conscious and look around, makes no move to assist, help, comfort, or care for them. nobody else does, either. they all stand around an injured person who is laying on the ground and looking around, but they make no move to help even though they are less than a foot away from him? this isn't consistent with basic human instinct. "

Just because brief film clips of the injured persons does not show anyone helping them at that instant, one cannot conclude that no help was ever given.
I choose to believe that some comfort was given to the injured. Just not while the 15 seconds of film was being shot. Perhaps worst cases were given a merciful coup de gras to relieve them from their misery, but I have to believe something was done.

The idea that Haglund was making a "Hollywood-type production" using actors is just stupid.

[lawton]

if i may, i would like to point out something that will probably not make me popular on this thread but i respect your research and genuine concern for "lgg" and i hate seeing good people being duped.
in the video, if you look at the "dead soldiers" in the close up shots, they are breathing, you can see the abdomen rise and fall. the ones who are laying in the grass and "still alive", though having appeared to have suffered some truama, look at their eyes. they are clear and bright, not the wild or bloodshot eyes of someone near death. these people do not reach out for help or even try to crawl to safety like you would expect from a person who is injured and out in the open with the possibility of those who injured him returning.
and finally, the lgg, herself. when the eye sustains a trauma of any magnitude to cause swelling and/or bruising, it swells the face around the eye as well. i know this for 2 reasons: my wife is a medical doctor, and i have been in numerous fights during the course of my life and have had both eyes blackened several times each. the "trauma" to her eye is not consistent with what you would expect from such an injury. closer visual evaluation reveals, in my opinion, that she is donning a prosthetic over her uninjured eye, especially near the end of the clip. a gap can be seen between the prosthetic and her face on the lower and left side.

While there is nothing wrong with a little skepticism I highly doubt that is the case here. You can see some breathing but that is probably because they are still alive for a while after suffering incapacitating injuries. As far as the eyes I have seen people near death with the same look to their eyes as those in the clip.

I have seen eyes swell in that fashion also for some time after the injury. Sometimes it can be a while for the swelling to spread a lot. I see what you are saying about it possibly being a prosthetic but I highly doubt it is because the coloring of her face matches up too well. I think the only thing staged was maybe the scene itself with him asking her to walk down the road to him so he could film it.

[FF7_12]

Hi all, it's a long time but many deployements...I booked my fly yesterday and will be on a short trip to Praha and Plezen from 7 to 10 May 2015. A kind of staff ride for the senventyth end of WWII anniversary. I plan to head each LGG's places and may be meet some veterans !

a list of what to do ?

regards

Hi Fhahfa, welcome back....

I visited Prague myself last year and of course stopped off at Pilsen and Ejpovice on the way over from Germany.

Prague is obviously the big attraction. Beautiful city.

Ejpovice and the LGG location are remarkably unchanged from the vid from '45.

I can't particularly recommend the demarcation line museum in Rokycany. Some interesting features on the Czech legion in the Ist WW, but not so much on the 2nd WW or the 8th May '45.

I visited the cemetery in Pilsen with the German military graves. An oasis of tranquility. What I hadn't expected was how much the place fascinated the kids, with its beautifully maintained family plots and showing the passing of generations.

I hope you enjoy your trip!

cheers

FF7_12