1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
User avatar
Bachmann
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 02:31
Location: Idaho (originally Birmingham UK)

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby Bachmann » 01 Jul 2017 23:39

well done kpraha292, it looks like here to me

stello
Member
Posts: 74
Joined: 17 Jul 2010 20:33
Location: Italy

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby stello » 02 Jul 2017 15:18

Hello Forum, hello kpraha292,
regarding your comparison I would like to point out that the size of the nose is different: shorter and slim in LGG.
comparison 2016 B.jpg

Cheers, Stefano
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Bachmann
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: 20 Jan 2006 02:31
Location: Idaho (originally Birmingham UK)

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby Bachmann » 02 Jul 2017 16:30

wow, that is a good point Stello , looks like a completely different woman ..back to the drawing board :(

Beltain
Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 05 Jun 2017 02:46
Location: Mo

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby Beltain » 06 Jul 2017 23:28

Only been one picture that passes the picture analysis test so far....

LGG comparison B.jpg

LGG comparison A.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

bresson50
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 03:25
Location: Chicago

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby bresson50 » 08 Jul 2017 14:33

Hello;

I am surprised and delighted to find this string about the lost german girl. I, too, became incredibly effected by the video when I saw it. Her beauty was quite profound and this, no doubt, made her a special target. She knew, full well approaching the American troops that what had just happened to her, could easily happen again right then. Her fear and desperation is beyond anything we can imagine. Something none of us today can even begin to comprehend. I know so may suffered fates worse then hers. Still, to me this is the ultimate image showing what despair and human suffering war brings. Ironic it happens to be a Nazi. I then found this string trying to search for more information about her. Incredible how many people are also so effected by this footage. It is truly an emotionally profound testament to the horrors of war and, in my view, the unique vulnerability of women during it. For me it's worthy to note that this brief video prompted me to learn more about what happened to German people after the fall. Not sure why, but it did. What I learned was fascinating. I never knew any of this. I think few people outside of Germany do, at least it seems, and despite the atrocities the Nazis committed, still I feel so strongly the world must know what can happen to innocent people of a conquered nation. Just as it is unacceptable to turn a blind eye to what the Nazi's committed, it is equally truly unjust to turn a blind eye to what happened to German citizens, particularly women and children, despite what the Nazi's did. Very simply, we all must know. In some ways I can't help think we are all better people if we do.

I am hoping someone might be able to answer these questions for me, as a means of summarizing what we know about the German girl. I would greatly appreciate any input anyone can provide:

- I read somewhere that the german military company that was in Pilsen on May 8th negotiated surrender to the Americans early and intentionally to avoid being sent to Russian pow camps (The Gulag, etc). Do we know if this was true and do we know where these particularly german POWS in Pilsen ended up after this?

- This begs another question, were female German POWs also sent the same prison camps as men? I can't imagine they were given the same type of hard labor? I so hope this women did not end up in the eastern bloc. I know none of the allied troops camps were pretty. It was clearly awful no matter what for the German POWS. But we know the Russian camps were atrocious. I am just wondering what the odds are that she only experienced more hell after her capture. Can anyone share any assumptions or facts about where she was taken?

- Do we know she was most likely raped based on her clothing?

- If she was, I assume it was either at the hands of the czech soliders or american soldiers, or possibly angry czech citizens, correct? The most likely being angry czech soldiers?


Thank you!!, anyone, for any answers you can offer. God bless.

Michael
Last edited by bresson50 on 08 Jul 2017 20:33, edited 9 times in total.

bresson50
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 03:25
Location: Chicago

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby bresson50 » 08 Jul 2017 16:31

I'd like to add that I realize it's also quite possible she was actually a german citizen living in Pilsen. Beaten and then, perhaps by coincidence, stumbling upon the American troops and asking for help. The german citizens were all expelled from Pilsen after this, many german citizens there were also killed, apparently. Perhaps it's more unlikely she was a citizen, but I wonder if she was trying to "pass by" the Americans, in which case, would suggest she might have been a citizen. Otherwise she would have simply surrendered, which it looks as though what happened. Perhaps you've all seen the footage of her sitting in the grass with other german soldiers, she is applying ice to her face. Interesting that the Americans who gave this to her clearly felt sympathy for her.

Again, thank you for any info.

Michael

ignacioosacar
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 May 2008 01:36
Location: Argentina

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby ignacioosacar » 09 Jul 2017 01:31

Dear bresson50 and Forum,

Regarding American treatment of German female POW´s I suggest you to search in Utube for some captions of nurses and helferings who have surrendered. I remember one was taken in the Cherbourg area ( among them a young piano concertist ! ), another caption, where you see nurses having a meal inside a tent hosted by American nurses and a Padre and yet another already inside an early American POW camp ( separated by a wire fence from the male sector in the open) or in a tent accomodation ( probably some days later ) . If you take a time to browse you may find a considerable number of film captions to analize, mostly taken in Europe after D Day of course. The general American attitude in my opinion was apparently a mix of prevention, gender respect and curiosity. Regarding the situation of Pilsen /Rocukany/ Ejpovice area there is a lot of information in this thread ( but you must read the 137 pages first! ) which answers most of your questions. There was a separation line and a given time, after that they were returned to the Russians! I remeber a very interesting report translated from a Czech municipal record ( you have to go back a quite a few pages in this thread ). Check a very interesting movie of Prague uprising, also in Utube somewhere, to see what happened to German military and civilians in the hands of Czech militia and or civilians ( shot first and later ran over with a truck ! ) The events in the rural area could not have been better. Cheers

bresson50
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 03:25
Location: Chicago

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby bresson50 » 10 Jul 2017 14:15

Thank you very much for the reply!

This may have already been discussed in the string. I have not had time to read all 137 pages.

I read here, (I'm sure this link has also been posted in the string already), which is a very detailed account of what happened there is Pilsen. http://www.globeatwar.com/article/there ... tion-plzen

In this article it states ...

"As part of the protocols for Pilsen, any germans captured before midnight May 8th, were the Americans. After midnight on May 8th, the Russians would take them"

This video was apparently shot May 8th around 2:00 PM.

Also, I saw that many websites that show the lost german girl are saying she is an "ethnic german civilian."

Thanks again.

ignacioosacar
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 May 2008 01:36
Location: Argentina

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby ignacioosacar » 10 Jul 2017 22:04

Dear Bresson50 and Forum,

Thanks for the link. It is a very detailed report of the events in the area in the relevant timeframe and the units involved. I do not remember if it was posted before. It helps to fix the context of the LGG event.

Remember that the forum has in general agreed on the precise point of LGG/Haglund filmteam encounter That is South of Ejpovice. Please check posted maps and photos. We had intense discussions if it was just some 100 meters farther East or farther West. Anyway this is West of the demarcation line. What we do not know exactly since what time was LGG wandering around. Probably spent the night there or in a nearby forest with other Axis personnel ( military and civilians ) during the night in order to elude Czech militas ? We just do not know. It is all educated guesswork I suppose. That would put her before the 8th at 0-Hour easily.

There are other color films to analize. Lots of women among surrendering Germans, in uniform, in civilian clothes, incomplete uniforms, half and half etc. What was the right decision if you were an Axis civilian female ? To dress in uniform so as to stay with the rest of German POW´s ( husbands and boyfriends) or keep wearing civvies; and if you were a helfering, stay in uniform or change to a civilian dress. What was safer ? It was not your decision if you were moving with your unit but if you had been separated from your outfit the decision was entirely yours. So a reasonable doubt still remains.
LGG could be either of those cases.

With no incoming new data we can only keep reassessing based in what we already have. Sawing the sawdust.

Cheers

bresson50
Member
Posts: 4
Joined: 08 Jul 2017 03:25
Location: Chicago

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby bresson50 » 11 Jul 2017 23:33

Thank you again for the information! :)

history1
Member
Posts: 2936
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby history1 » 12 Jul 2017 08:03

Just a minor correction to make a search more successful:
Helferin - singular (english: aide, assistent, helper); Helferinnen - plural

Cheers

He -x1S
New member
Posts: 1
Joined: 12 Jul 2017 13:20
Location: France

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby He -x1S » 12 Jul 2017 13:49

Hi everyone. It is a passionate research that you are doing here. As we are making hypothesis about this girl, i was just wondering if this girl was a surviver being part of the same group of prisonners killed or wounded that appear lying dead in the video some seconds before her. It looks like she escape from a mob beating - she has hematoms in the left eye and the left hand too, fingernails with mud. This can explain why she is alone in the street and not with the other prisonners. If they were all going to an american prisonner camp, I think she was late compare to the other. Maybe the camera guy took her in his jeep and brought her with the others (last part of the video, she look smiling in the middle of two other prisonners). She doesn't look military at all, flakhelferin, I was thinking maybe she was part of the german military administration, she looks to me more like a 30 years old secretary or working on the telegraph service.
And a last thing, is she pregnant in the video?

(srry for my english)

ignacioosacar
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 May 2008 01:36
Location: Argentina

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby ignacioosacar » 12 Jul 2017 14:31

Danke history1 !

ignacioosacar
Member
Posts: 303
Joined: 22 May 2008 01:36
Location: Argentina

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Postby ignacioosacar » 12 Jul 2017 15:07

GERMAN NURSEs.jpg
For bresson50 and Forum,

Just a pic but might illustrate a general atittude.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Return to “Women in the Reich”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot]