1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
Longball
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Location: Upstate New York

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Longball » 14 Feb 2018 15:43

Wow! Got here a little late. 9 years of posts is like reading a book. Very interesting thread and often full of suspense. I couldn’t wait
to read the next page! When I saw I had 130 pages left to read - certainly someone would find out who she was and what her fate was.
I was disappointed she was not found and saddened by what I did find out.

I had always thought that she was a German girl, walking on a German road, in Germany. I had thought that there was a 90
percent chance of a positive outcome to her story. Finding out that LGG was in Czechoslovakia changed that. That area was one
of the worst possible places a German could be immediately after the war, esp. May - August 1945. The next few years were
no picnic either with the forced ‘wild’ expulsions/deportations of Germans and President Benes various decrees against Germans.

My optimism for a positive outcome for LGG was reduced further when I read this:

“A pamphlet issued on June 5, 1945 titled "Ten Commandments for Czechoslovak Soldiers in the Border Regions" directed soldiers that "The
Germans have remained our irreconcilable enemies. Do not cease to hate the Germans...... Be harsh to the Germans... German women and
the Hitler Youth also bear the blame for the crimes of the Germans. Deal with them too in an uncompromising way.”
Source: "Facing History: The Evolution of Czech - German Relations in the Czech Provinces, 1848–1948" 2002, ISBN 8086010643, p.216,217
And this was AFTER the war!

Last week I found some info that is most likely “too little, too late” now to help in the quest to find LGG. If this has already been posted, I apologize. It’s hard to remember 138 pages. If it has not been posted then I’m very surprised.

During the Communists rule of Czechoslovakia they of course re-wrote history - it was the Russians who liberated Pilsen(Plzen). In 1989
during the ‘Velvet Revolution’ the Communists were ousted from Czechoslovakia. The following spring - May of 1990 - the city of Pilsen
held its first Pilsen Liberation Festival celebrating the American 3rd Army’s liberation of Pilsen from the Nazi’s. It is a big multi-day affair.
Veterans from Patton’s 3rd Army go each year. Even Patton’s grandson goes. There is a parade with hundreds of WWII era vehicles
recreating the liberation of Pilsen. It is a huge event and I suspect people from nearby towns like Ejovice, and Rokyzany attend.

This year is the 29th annual festival. The dates for 2018 are May 3-6 with the 6th being a big day because that’s the day Pilsen was liberated.
The ‘Convoy of Liberation’ will be May 5th. The website is: http://slavnostisvobody.cz/en/program/l ... lsen-2018/
The website has photos of past festivals and interviews with veterans, etc. It seems possible that at some point in the past that this festival could
have been a good place to look for someone who may have seen LGG. Like I said earlier, most likely “too little, too late”.

I wonder if Haglund ever realized what he captured on film with LGG. As long as the film is shown, LGG will live on in the hearts and minds
of those who see her, while you and I will fade into historical obscurity.

rjm65
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Location: San Diego CA

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by rjm65 » 27 Feb 2018 10:31

Check in periodically to see if anything new has been discovered.

Has anything about LGG ever been posted on the Facebook page for this forum? It seems like if this discussion was taking place on Facebook that it would have gone viral by now and with so many views may have had more information turn up.

Baxter1437
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Location: UK

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Baxter1437 » 04 Mar 2018 21:06

Hello all.

I have nothing to add to the discovery of LGG, only my own thoughts.

1. The population of Germany at this time was not too dissimilar to today. That's 79 million souls. I applaud your efforts to find a needle in a haystack.

2. There were tremendous violances against the Germanic peoples bordering Germany. Even before Hitler. My own grandmother and her friends (about the same age as this girl) experienced rape and beatings from General Titos militias (Yugoslav communists), much further south on the border of Yugoslavia. She only spoke of it in her dying days. Moving to the UK after the war, she was met with open racism on account of her Germanism. My grandmother hated the Russians. This confuses me a little (I'm not a history buff) as I didn't think Tito was a Russian.

3. Having seen the video only today, I have a fresh perspective on what is enticing you all. It struck me how modern she looked. We are used to seeing different types of women at this time. With her, you are seeing a girl dressed in an 80s style tight jumper with straight hair and the look of a model, well at least on her good side. I actually think she looks quite intense. Naturally beautiful, you can tell.

4. We see her staggering and slumping her head and jostling forward helplessly. For women contributors, you feel a strong sense of sisterhood and for men you feel a sense of protection. You are probably old enough to avoid reactionary feelings of 'she was a Nazi' as you know that she was part of the war effort for her country. Even if she was unaware of the damage her country was wreaking.

Finally,

5. I think, sadly, there is a very good reason she remains unknown. Unlike the majority of the 79 million, her image it seems is fairly well exposed. I don't think this unit of US soldiers had any inclination to meddle in their capture given that the locals/advancing Russians would purge the are anyway. She remains unknown, I think, because they ended up in Russian hands. I hope not.

If not? I suspect the trauma of war would render it unlikely that she lived a stable, long life to 93. That said, the Queen of England is 91 and look at her. That also validates my point, a pretty healthy, smooth life.

Best of luck.

fhafha
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by fhafha » 14 Mar 2018 13:59

Hey all, back to this post after a long pause...a few years abroad in different countries.
I am planning to go again to the place on next may. Py first and last trip there was on 8th of may 2015 for 70th anniversary;
If some of you have specific questions that might found answer in situ, please feed me with your ideas.

Cheers

Jammy
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Location: Uk

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Jammy » 21 Mar 2018 15:21

I joined this site to contribute to this extraordinary 9 year journey because I too came across this 42 second video on YouTube. Yes I watched the other, longer versions too but..Like many of you, it had a profound effect on me. I'm not sure why as there are many harrowing experiences we can view of history but somehow this encapsulates the true impact of conflict, war and in an intimate yet so distressing way. I read most of the pages...the forensic examination of who, where and when, even why? I commend all of you for your research, your devotion because it's important. My first post was rejected, I have written a short piece about the LGG. The moderator it seems doesn't want me to. So I try again...

Jammy
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Jammy » 22 Mar 2018 21:42

42 Seconds
May 8 1945
The Lost German Girl
We are inspired, intrigued, pleased, distressed, antagonised, horrified or moved by what we do, see, read or hear. These encapsulate feelings. These experiences are the fabric of life; the seedcorn of wisdom. In reality, in movies, on YouTube, in a book, a painting, an opera, a concert or just a bird song. Like a call to prayer from a minaret, calling for your soul.
Often they span time. Which means when were they created? By whom? For what purpose?
Sometimes they are immortal, sometimes they are instant. Sometimes they endure to become saints or gods exemplified by relics, bones, artefacts, fossils or pieces of driftwood on a beach, a story untold. Sometimes they are coals on a fire whose warmth is as heartening as a hug from a stranger. They glow, give heat but become grey ashes in the bucket of life.
Most of all though they look at you and ask something. They beg a formula, equation, metaphor or just an answer. Why now? Why me? Why her? How could they do that? What does it mean?
Is a 42 second piece of film art? Does it create, ask, demand or beg a question or an answer? Maybe it drags you from your catatonic state of consumerism, school runs, global warming and recycling bins to another place. One of euphoria, delight, hurt or pain. Or is it just in the past like an event captured yet forgotten?
To experience such things, one used to have to travel, get dressed up, go to war, marching down a street surrounded by your family, friends and community urging you on to pursue victory and waving flags. You had to prepare; to go to church, a concert, a museum, a cemetery or a gallery, even a holiday. You had the chance to get ready, embrace and cherish the thought, emotion or experience.
Now you just click a screen...
You are unprepared. You are not wearing a uniform, bow tie or a fancy frock. Through some algorithm, some monolithic, corporative search engine you are taken to a different place. You didn't ask, you didn't specifically dial it in. You saw something and just clicked.
42 seconds later you stop and think. What have I just watched? What was that? Who was that? Where did it happen? Who was she? So many questions...
Another click; replay..
Like relieving a tooth pain you press. This time your fingers hit the "volume up" button. This time it's like from 2D to 3D. The experience is enhanced and deepened, just like an engine starting up, the music reverberates to the depths of your being. The pain trebles. Press harder, it's only a tooth ache. But it's not, it's much more than that.
It replays and you get absorbed. You enter that world like you are taking the film. It was in the past, it's history yet you feel it like it's now. It hurts, it cuts, it feels...just really bad.
Click.....
So who was that unknown, beautiful woman? The Lost German Girl (or LGG as she has now been immortalized as). How did she fare? Did she survive? What fate befell her?
Since the clips were released in 2008, despite extensive, commendable, forensic and, sometimes fanciful, research, we are none the wiser. Of the time and location we are sure. May 8 1945; VE day, near a small town in Czechoslovakia called Rokycany. The Americans have arrived, the Germans have surrendered, the local partisans are seeking retribution, taking reprisals, the Russians are approaching. It is chaos. Difficult decisions, life and death choices need to be made. Out of the mists of fear, bewilderment, pain, suffering, relief and possible death appears the LGG.
She is traumatised, has clearly been beaten and, perhaps, fought back? Maybe worse but how I dislike the voyeurs of depravity. She suffered okay? To what degree is irrelevant. She displays, in just 42 seconds, a persona that is much analysed. Yes she is pretty, some would say beautiful. Yes she is in shock, she clings to something that is dear to her; a pack of cards? a notebook? Some worthless banknotes? Who knows. She is desperate, fatigued, in pain and, it would appear, alone although not later. Yet she also has courage, resoluteness and strength, a will to survive which is incredibly endearing. I would defy anyone watching this clip who does not want to hold her, hug her, give her a cup of soup and say "everything's going to be okay". Maybe just like the cameraman did...we all hope so.
I'm guessing we have all watched footage of WW2, WW1 and others. Much of it is horrific, indescribable and an example of how we, the supposed most intelligent species on this beautiful planet, can indulge and inflict, unlike any other creatures, the most horrific pain, suffering and death on our own species. We are unique in our barbarocity. Shame on us.
The LGG, in my view, gives us a chance, albeit fleeting, to reflect. This is not men being mown down by machine guns on a battlefield, cadavers being scooped up by bulldozers or planes disintegrating in the sky. It is a woman who has clearly suffered, endured and wants to survive; whatever her history, culpability, status or affiliation. It gives a message.
Is this what we want to inflict on ourselves? Do we deserve this?
Since the clip was released, I came upon a forum. 139 pages spanning 9 years which have reflected on this footage. From location, time, the film maker, context...it has been amazing. A search for...what? A name? Some knowledge about LGG? Was she a brutal camp guard, an SS guard?, the daughter of a commandant, a searchlight bearer trying to shine a light on the enemy, whomever they were... To what end?
My take? I don't care what she did, which unit she was assigned to, what atrocities she witnessed or ascribed to or what uniform she wore. She was a victim. As are countless other women, children and men who suffer in pursuit of.....what?
I just want to hug that beautiful woman, bathe her wounds, give her a cup of tea and make her smile. That would be pretty good....bless you LGG. I would have liked to have met you.
Jammy

Biber
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Biber » 23 Mar 2018 13:19

Seriously?

Jammy
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Jammy » 24 Mar 2018 15:42

I would never wish to argue with you my friend Biber, but yes I would seriously like to have met her. I have three watch words in my life:
1. Compassion; to put other people's feelings before my own.
2. Humility; I can never be right all the time.
3. Modesty; I've always disliked a bighead (please don't think I'm calling you one!). I was good at my job but someone else was always better.
Before I get booted for going off topic?
In my view LGG was denied all of my watch words. Until she came across the American Captain filming, I'm guessing she was denied compassion. She made life choices or they were made for her.
I don't think she was given the opportunity to be humble. She was just trying to survive. She had no idea what right was, or wrong.
She may have been the best searchlighter, flak gunner, prison guard or just a daughter raised in the wrong place, at the wrong time in the world. But I doubt she ever bragged about it.
There is no conclusion. Just conjecture, thoughtfulness and reflection.
Respectfully,
Jammy

Jammy
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Jammy » 24 Mar 2018 15:49

My last post I promise. As an aspiring guitarist of 40 plus years, I so enjoyed reevedavey rendition to LGG and comments. Heartfelt, emotional, symbolic and a delight to listen to. I salute you reevedavey.
Jammy

certik66
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Joined: 16 Apr 2018 19:55
Location: Pilsen

Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by certik66 » 16 Apr 2018 20:02

Hallo ,
i found this forum , i am from Pilsen , Czech Republic . If somebody want to go on with this investigation , you can contact me. Ejpovice are very close to my home.
Bert

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Brittstephan
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Brittstephan » 01 May 2018 23:49

Lost german girl on location!!!from the netherlands all the way to CZ road 605.
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Brittstephan
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Brittstephan » 02 May 2018 04:47

Sorry to put a screenshot as photo but didnt know how i should do it else.i found the road and a lott off info thanks to you guys!followd the topic for a long time but i wanted to wait untill i was there,before i registerd me on this site.what ever happend wil be in the dark about lcg.but i hope some one wil see the video and think...hey my grandmother told me about this or people have family photo albums of her.ofcourse i dont forget about all the other men and woman who sufferd in the war and died.but just this video and this girl leave a brandmark in our eyes.hope to here from guys.greetings stephan

EasyRoller
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by EasyRoller » 06 May 2018 13:27

Like several on this thread I first saw the LGG on the BBC World at War series and despite the hours of overall film footage her brief appearance stood out for me and was memorable. I think I've read almost every post on this thread over time although I can't recall all that's been posted but I decided to toss out some guesses of my own.

First and foremost I feel we have zero evidence of her ethnicity, nationality and precise circumstances around that time. But what we can run with is speculations based on probabilities.

It's a better than even chance she's German although that may not be the case. There were thousands of volunteers in the German military from occupied countries. We have only her clothing and speculation about her circumstances to conclude she may be German.

When I first saw LGG my immediate thoughts were similar to many -- she seemed to have gone through the ringer ala beatings and rape. But zero evidence of rape, and a massive contusion on one side of her face. My speculation is with a butt of a rifle.

Next, it made very little sense to me that any woman would be walking alone along a major road in that area at that time so I suspect this was perhaps orchestrated by the cameraman. The only other verifiable image we have is her sitting with some men, seemingly being cared for with some clothe with possibly ice inside to help her swollen face, and they all look fairly relaxed as if they were now under the protection of the US Army and happy about it (free of partisan violence).

Then we see numerous images of young men either dead or in terrible condition leading to my speculation perhaps they were all Czech's in the German military or support services, including LGG, now trying to avoid being beaten or shot as collaborators by the partisan forces.

As far as still being alive, my father told me he was the youngest lieutenant in his Division which was part of the US 3rd Army, and he passed away in 2016 at age 93. LGG looks to me to be about the same age, maybe a few years older which would put her at about age 97 if she were still alive in 2018. Probability of her still being alive .... extremely rare like around .01 % according to some tables and charts.

Many fawn over her now, privately hoping she'll still look the same today minus the facial injury, wishing they could have been there to help, but to me she serves as a poster child or monument to the utter catastrophe of WWII and the tens of thousands of pretty young women like her (plus everyone else) who perished during those times.

Cheers -- Robert

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar » 06 May 2018 22:53

Hello EasyRoller,

I share your overall appraisal about this issue. Nevertheless I still expect that someone might post a new lead in the future.

Cheers

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Dr Eisvogel
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Dr Eisvogel » 07 May 2018 10:44

EasyRoller wrote: Then we see numerous images of young men either dead or in terrible condition leading to my speculation perhaps they were all Czech's in the German military or support services, including LGG, now trying to avoid being beaten or shot as collaborators by the partisan forces.

Dear Robert,

If I remember correctly there were suggestions on this thread that beside being Germans some of them might have been Estonians, Finns, Ukrainians or Russians.

But no account posted on this thread ever suggested that they were Czechs.

What made you think they might be Czechs and not Germans (either Reichsdeutsche or Volksdeutsche)?

Best regards,
Eisvogel

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