1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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Xavier
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Xavier » 11 May 2020 22:55

just went thru it, mystery solved, sad days..at leat she survived

irishmain
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by irishmain » 11 May 2020 23:12

Sorry but it is a work of fiction, dismantled several times by greater minds than mine within the 146 pages of comments here. If you look back through the research and comments you will fall upon them.
Wishing you all good luck and to keep well, 75 years ago I am sure one could not imagine the state the world might be in like it is today. It was pretty bleak though, the march back to Germany in '45. But hopefully the start of a happier life for those in the old video clips.

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Helly Angel
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Helly Angel » 12 May 2020 06:28

irishmain wrote:
11 May 2020 23:12
Sorry but it is a work of fiction, dismantled several times by greater minds than mine within the 146 pages of comments here. If you look back through the research and comments you will fall upon them.
Interesting. And what about her BDM official photo? This is her.

Here we have a tuit and another more complete work... fiction? I don´t think so.

To much information, even the BDM picture and another picture and is her.

The other pictures... is her.

https://twitter.com/gspowers/status/1258846336461484032

https://motls.blogspot.com/2019/05/lost ... r.html?m=1
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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 13 May 2020 00:29

Hello people of the forum, after seeing many times the video where LGG appears, I have noticed that it has moles and features that do not coincide with those photos that were published a long time ago, in which I highlight the photos that I upload and capture in the highest quality that I found.
Regarding the blg note as stated in this forum, it is a fictional story and there is no more data on where and how you know those things, for my part I would like those stories to be real since it would give LGG a already quiet life.
75 years have passed since that LGG foundation and when not being sure who she is, her image endures in our memories

Image

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Terry Duncan
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Terry Duncan » 13 May 2020 01:46

If you look at the posed photos there is a very small blemish on them that could be a mole hidden by makeup. The stories seem to be fictional at least in part so it is hard to rely on that alone, but then we need to account for the name and BDM photo as there is an extraordinary likeness to the girl in the film. The linked tweet dates the photo to 4th May 45, but at that point US troops should not be at this spot as it would appear the US 16th Armoured Division only arrived in the area of Plzen/Pilsen on 7th May 45.

http://www.globeatwar.com/article/big-r ... vakia-1945

Both links also conclude with a note stating "P.S.: The whole Lore Bauer story may be good fiction that someone made up." which indicates the person writing has no idea as to the truth of the story, which leads to the question where did they find the name and link to the BDM photo etc. The road does seem to be similar to those I looked at when naming Tymakov as being the area where the film was taken, whilst the articles linked to specify Ejpovice which is just to the north of Tymakov, so it would appear we can narrow the location down to a very small area now. Whilst possibly intrusive, does anyone have any idea how we could find out more about Lore Bauer?

Gewehr41
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Gewehr41 » 14 May 2020 13:19

CarlosXander wrote:
11 Apr 2020 02:13
Image
Image
Image
Image
Sorry, but for what were killed, if war was ended? 8O

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 14 May 2020 23:30

A large group of German soldiers who were in Prague withdrew to surrender to the US who were in Pilzen, a few miles from Rokycany, that group is divided into 2, a smaller group with the wounded, young, old, women and civilians leaving rokycany are attacked by civilians from those towns, is what you see in the images of the dead and wounded on the road, in which I think LGG was there

EasyRoller
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by EasyRoller » 15 May 2020 06:50

Sorry folks but that pic of her as a girl is not the same person. Wishful thinking I'm sure. I can accept her name is Lore Bauer but as for everything else, needs confirmation.

ignacioosacar1
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar1 » 16 May 2020 17:04

UrsulaHolz wrote:
04 Sep 2017 20:12
Well, looking at the picture of this young lady quite objectively, she looks exactly like my mother who was in the Lufftwaffe when they surrendered in Pilsen in 1945. I have seen photos of her taken during the next few years, and all I can say it that this is a spitting image, She was amazingly lovely. If its her - and I cant ask her as she is now 91 and has Alzheimers - though I guess another family member may recognise her - I'll ask - I need to know. I need to know more info about her anyway. Her name was Ella Louise Holzmann, she was from what was Rastenburg East Prussia - now Ketryzn Poland. I am basically trying to piece together my family history on her side. She came to England in the early 1950s and married my dad and settled in Merseyside, near Liverpool, England, where I was brought up. I thought it was quite boring went she talked about the war when I was growing up - 'I was a refugee, I was stateless, I had nothing but the clothes I was wearing, - I could never back to my family home'... - when you are mainly interested in make up, pop music and boys - all the war stuff - just dead history. I wished I's asked her more about it all before the Alzheimers came on.
Dear Forum,

DID WE EVER CHECK THIS POST ?

Cheers all!

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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar1 » 16 May 2020 17:43

Dear Forum,

I agree that the "mohican" soldier marching in the POW column ( under American custody ) and the one sitting together with LGG are the same person. I do not agree with the other presumed same identities. The man in the pic is badly hurt or even dying ! So he cannot be marching the next day. The boy with the red pullover is dead. All this violence against Axis surrendering troops happened before the Americans got there. LGG mole was not ever mentioned before and is a good finding for identification.

Cheers all !

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 17 May 2020 04:00

dear forums
First of all sorry for using the google translator, my language is Spanish and I know very little English
unfortunately all the footage found on you tube and online is not ordered
regarding the boy with the red sweater in one of the videos he is seen very early in the morning and
you see him parading with a group, point out the position of the sun, I believe that group that separated was
attacked near noon with unfortunate consequences. I have seen videos where a group of Germans
who are escorted by the US Army are attacked by partisans and angry people, which
US soldiers do nothing or intervene a little later

Image
Image


in other shots we can see the man in the hat and striped sweater sitting, in other shots he is seen wearing boots
  and later without them, it could be that the long journey from the morning to when you sit down was long

Image

other curious data, the group that left prague was large and then divided into 2, the first group was the largest and
the second smallest where the "Mohican" soldier was, you can see a woman who is first seen in the group
big and then it stays in the smallest group

Image

In another shot we can see a German with an eye patch that was first in the large group and then stayed in the
small group you can also see the "mohican" soldier
as I said I think the second group was attacked by the people of rokycany with tragic consequences and they are
those images that can be seen

Image


Image
Last edited by CarlosXander on 18 May 2020 03:05, edited 1 time in total.

kerica
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by kerica » 17 May 2020 23:32

hi forum

i just noticed this thread, and have sort of ploughed through the 146 pages

Some very good pic analysis by carlos at id the LGG group individuals
from the bigger marches. I couldnt really look at the gruesome and long
shots of the dead bodies in the vid, but it did seem to me that some of the badly
wounded ones in the trees and roadside were speaking, as if Haglund
or someone was asking them questions, like what happened. Do we know
if Haglund spoke german? His name sounds sort of scandinavian.

Where was he based during this time - Pilsen? or somewhere else. I think this
thread has stated that the 16th stayed in the area until august at a base north
of Pilsen, but where did Haglund go after the 9th?

Has anyone suggested looking at the archives of the 16th armoured division?
There is a book about them. A summary is here:

http://www.globeatwar.com/article/there ... tion-plzen

Apparently the archives can be found at NARA RG407.

there is also a div association. its president was Sgt George Thompson
[137th arm ord] who was in Pilsen 2013 at a new memorial to the liberation. Must be
very very old now if hes alive. But they have a facebook page for family of veterans.

https://en-gb.facebook.com/16thADA/

Perhaps someone could ask them if they could ID the GIs posing by the dead boy.
They might have left some stories of that day which could explain the timeline
of events shown in the films which still seem a puzzel.

The short clip of LGG has appeared in many ww2 docs, but years ago when i was
visiting prague i saw it in a chech doc, and i asked a chech what they said
about it, he said that these were Germans attacked by local people as
they tried to get to Americans, and the LGG group were survivors of the
attack. I didnt watch much more but apparently there was a local man Frantich {?}
a gestapo informer who had now set himself up as a partisan chief and took
many SS off to a castle after the surrender where they were murdered.

Another question: was the LGG clip first broadcast in the World at War?
Or was it used in newsreels in 1945? Becos it seems its been around so
long and no one has recognised this woman in 40+ or 70 years.
I'm thinking that means her story didnt have a happy ending.

kerica

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 19 May 2020 02:59

On this page where they collect a lot of information from Czechoslovakia, there is a summary of what we see in the filming and what happened, there is also a report from LGG that calls her "SS girl" a description of the well-known videos, unfortunately there is nothing more than the well-known of LGG but if what allegedly happened

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844

history1
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by history1 » 19 May 2020 14:06

CarlosXander wrote:
19 May 2020 02:59
On this page where they collect a lot of information from Czechoslovakia, there is a summary of what we see in the filming and what happened, there is also a report from LGG that calls her "SS girl" a description of the well-known videos, unfortunately there is nothing more than the well-known of LGG but if what allegedly happened

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn1003844
You need to be aware that the staff from the USHMM also calls RAD-men (Reichs Labor Service) "German soldiers" or girls in BDM (League of German Girls) - uniforms (in a photo) "girls in school uniform". Their website contains also a lot of mistranslations/misinterpretation and the worst is that they do NOT correct misinformation spread by Holocaust survivors in their serial "First Person" where they do interview them and let them tell their stories, eg a Jewish man who escaped after the Anschluss (of Austria to Nazi Germany) tells that he had to hide in the Paris metro from German bombs in 1939 (France got attacked in summer 1940!) or that they had to wear life wests and gas masks permanently during the passage to the USA because of the German u-boats (!), while I found out in my research that this gentleman did leave the UK (he went from Paris there after a few weeks) even BEFORE WWII broke out! Nothing got corrected by the USHMM and the audience told wrong informations what the USHMM staff is aware about very well!
Instead they do block Holocaust scholars on their social media pages of the USHMM who point out their failures/incorrect info but at the same time they allow Holocaust denial from Americans there. In this way they they don´t only violate their own rules but also the US constitution.
Thus I suggest to think twice about the description "SS-girl".

kerica
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by kerica » 19 May 2020 15:22

The short clip of LGG has appeared in many ww2 docs, but years ago when i was
visiting prague i saw it in a chech doc, and i asked a chech what they said
about it, he said that these were Germans attacked by local people as
they tried to get to Americans, and the LGG group were survivors of the
attack.
i have to correct myself. I was told they were killed by Americans,
not locals. Apologies to the Chech people!

I think the soldier linking arms in the colomn could be LGG [as
Carlos suggests] or its a soldier with unusually long hair for the
german army. And the fact that there are others in that colomn
who later appear in the LGG group filmed by haglund, makes
sense. There are about 8 in that group and there were 8
survivors of a SS group mentioned shot up near ?Ejpovice
in the thread. So it seems to fit, but i'm not sure if i've
correctly understood the timeline of events in the film
and the specific geographical associations.

Has anyone read that book in german about the SS Flak women?
I just wonder if it says how they were treated in the POW camp
at the demarkation line at ?Rokycani, and how long before
they were released. Presumably that is where LGG would have
been taken too, if she survived the road.

kerica

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