1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
Groove
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Groove » 26 May 2020 16:29

This thread is one of the most amazing things I have found on the internet yet. Thanks to all involved, amazing to follow the thread!
For what its worth my two thoughts:
I think it could be that the LGG is in fact Lore Vogt. This thought was brought up in this forum but not really discussed more as a conflict broke out if it is moraly wrong to search for the name.
A) The women in the photo of the jutta rüdiger book is looking very similar to the LGG. Its hard to tell but should be comparef further. The story Lore Vogt tells about her wartime experiences also would make sense for the LGG and sadly also being raped by US soldiers makes sense given the impression stated by some that Hagelund filmed her in a sexualised way..
B) Many wondered why she was not recognised yet. Lore Vogt died on December 31st 1947. That date seems to me (given her age) plausible as a date for a possible suicide. Given the LGG died in 1947 its very likely she didn‘t have kids who could recognise her.
Also if her family was german and living in Czech it could be very likely that they were all Nazis. It could be possible the whole family was killed during and after the war by war, postwar communism, czech rage or suicide.

I know this is all highly speculative, but seen from a more psychological standpoint its a possibility.
Who came up with Lore Bauer by the way?
Lore is not a that common way, i find it to be interesting that theres a Lore Bauer and Lore Vogt.

I will try to find out more about Lore Vogt, maybe we can find a better photo of her!

frank101
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by frank101 » 28 May 2020 12:04

On page 81 the subtitle off the photo says: Lore Vogt in the raw who is standing, in the middle.

But she is not the girl with the most similarities (the other two girls who where discussed there).

ignacioosacar1
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar1 » 30 May 2020 23:54

Dear Forum,

I agree with frank 101. The girl in the second row , in the middle , looking to her left , mouth open ( laughing ? talking ? ) has the closest similarity, specially her hair. Unfortunately a frontal photo is needed to compare it with the LGG caption assuring a minimum degree of precision. The SS Alarm Flak Abteilung Prag is still my choice as the unit she belonged to. I know it may be considered a shot in the dark but I would follow a single line of investigation until it is completely finished. I read somewhere that women from this unit were liberated from US POW camps in late november while other German women were liberated in June because they were wrongly suspected to have some association with the SS besides the fact they were clearly Luftwaffe.

Cheers all !

wills_john
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by wills_john » 31 May 2020 08:06

Hi,
There has been an ongoing discussion since 7 years on axishistoryforum.com but the only thing that's certain is the location. It was filmed by an american soldier in a small village called 'Ejpovice' 10km away from 'Pilsen' near the czech border.

There's a longer video on youtube where you can see several dead SS-Soldiers laying on the ground after being beaten by the czech mob. She has a swollen left eye which is rumored to be from being raped. There's not really much solid evidence about her identity, just a bit about her alleged role in the wehrmacht as in job, rank etc..

Now a disclaimer from my side; If you watch the footage from the american GI you'll maybe notice the voyeuristic vibe while he's filming her. Most of the interest she generated probally came from her being an attractive colorized and beaten up WW2 woman. I'm not sure why I'm explaining my curiosity with this person but she just caught my interest and I can't let go. I'm genuinley interested who she was, what happened to her and how her life turned out.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 31 May 2020 20:39

hello forum
I continue to watch the videos looking for indications of where LGG appears, the truth is that with the material found on the network it is not much, in the large group of German soldiers who enter Rokycany you can see another woman accompanying the group, it is the second woman that I see and show in another thread, does not look like LGG (in that shot you see a dirty German soldier and then already in neat Pilzen) her face is wider although her hair is up to her shoulders and she seems more stature, I continue to see and try to find where the largest group is separated from the minor since it is in this group I think LGG was
regards

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Twin Headlamps
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Twin Headlamps » 03 Jun 2020 09:47

I don't think it's the same guy but similar looking I would admit

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 18 Jun 2020 23:30

German DW documentary on rapes during conflicts, LGG images appear but unfortunately there is no data from it and they are the known images
https://youtu.be/eQLMQ2Q9_I8
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irishmain
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by irishmain » 08 Jul 2020 19:50

Google the story about Lily Ebert and Private Schulman. Maybe we can try twitter for one more search for LGG?

Louisville
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Louisville » 10 Jul 2020 21:38

OK, This is my first post on the forum...
I've worked, as a psychologist, with the UNHCR, mainly in Africa and Middle East. I've seen and talked to a lot of women and children casualties of war.
Unfortunately a lot of theses women have been victims of repeated rapes.
I don' t think the LGG has been group raped. She won' t be able to walk normally, she would be bleeding.
At this time a lot of women have been raped, but maybe not this one... Maybe rape is a projection, is in the eye of the viewer...
I think she was German AAA personnel and was beaten by civilians...

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 11 Jul 2020 01:06

I share the opinion of Louisville, I can also be wrong, in the video I uploaded from DW Documentaly they put LGG as raped and because of her clothes it gives that feeling, but I think she was beaten by Czechoslovak partisans who attacked that group of soldiers and civilians Germans who were going to Pilzen to surrender, I am not a doctor but seeing many war films, she seems to have a feeling of war neurosis or better known as shell shock, this is clearly visible in the second and third part of the video that she appears that focus it in the foreground

RenardR31
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by RenardR31 » 18 Aug 2020 18:05

I had to see this piece of film for the first time, about twenty years ago and since then I have been wondering: Who can she be?
Since then, her image has become, rightly or wrongly, the icon of German women and women in general, abused during the Second World War. The film is presented as such in many documentaries on the Second World War. Like most of you, I read the entire file on the forum. Today, with the efficient work carried out by some of you, we know when, where and who took the shots and that with very good precision. Unfortunately we still don't know who she is. However, and to me, none of the shots of the young girl except the one sitting in the ditch by the side of the road are natural. It's hard for me to imagine that the cameramen crossed this girl, without a jacket, without a bag, walking alone by the side of the road, that he jumped out of his jeep and could have filmed the scene without preparation. This does not correspond to the other shots that appear in the rest of the film, each time it is a scene filmed "naturally" in report mode. When we visualize the entire film, in a linear and continuous way, the passage where the young girl appears seems "staged", as if the cameramen after having spotted the young woman had asked him to walk towards the camera several times taking care to "isolate" her from the outside context unlike the other shots the road seems deserted except for a few vehicles and a few people who appear very far in the background. This is also strange, in the rest of the film we are always faced with groups, columns, almost parades of soldiers, civilians and vehicles. This does not take anything away from the fact that this young lady was certainly abused, that it is deeply unfair, unacceptable and sad. I think, but no one will ever be able to deny it or confirm it, that this American crossed by chance this girl, that she caught his eye, undoubtedly his compassion and that he wanted to engrave his memory for eternity on a piece of film. Sorry for the english i use google translater French to English.

ignacioosacar1
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar1 » 19 Aug 2020 20:09

I share your view RenardR31.

RenardR31
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by RenardR31 » 21 Aug 2020 20:09

Hello forum.
Thank you for your comment Ignacioosacara1.
Many of us wonder why LGG has never been identified for all these years. I have also asked myself this question. LGG is not the only one to have been an unwitting icon at some point in history. There was, for example, Kazimiera Mika, this young girl photographed in 1939 next to her sister killed during the Polish war. The young Japanese woman with the white flag photographed in Okinawa in June 1945 (Tomiko Higa). This militia woman during the Spanish Civil War in 1936 (Marina Ginesta). The young 16-year-old German soldier in 1945 (Hans Georg Henke) The little napalm girl photographed & filmed in Vietnam in 1972 and finally practically all the anonymous people who appear in the film Zapruder made during the Kennedy assassination in Dallas 1963 and many more .
All were identified sooner or later, in my opinion, there are a few reasons that can explain it.

1. The photos or the report are produced by information professionals who are accredited by editorial staff, newspapers, organizations that will massively disseminate information.
2. The reports are published, broadcast, in major newspapers and magazines (Life, for example) or in TV programs almost in real time as during the Vietnam War for example.
3. Professional reporters conduct a full investigation and inquire about the identity of the person at the time of the report or sometimes investigate after the fact.
4. In some cases, there is an official investigation (JFK) carried out by competent services with significant resources.

In the case of LGG movie, O.W. Haglund is an assistant Hollywood director. He is not a reporter. He can stage, but he lacks the reflexes of an investigator. He comments on the part of the film with LGG "the SS girl" or "the SS young girl" probably like all Americans in 1945 who considered all German soldiers in uniform as SS. The “documentary” aspect of Haglund's films is quite poor, it clearly appears that the panels announcing the sequences are erroneous since in the film: “Wehrmacht surrender in Czechoslovakia May 1945” of 25.26 minutes we find: “P21, May 7 ”then“ P27, May 8 ”and then“ P28 4/8/45 ”followed by P29 4/8/45, P80 4/8/45, etc. They reused the same panel by only modifying the number of the shot without giving attention to the date which is not correct, the month of May is 05 of course.
There are other comments to be made on the films of O.W. Haglund, but I will come back to that later in other post. To my knowledge O.W. Haglund returned to the United States at the end of the war and never tried to find out who LGG was.
O.W. Haglund works for the US military which wants to make a series of end of war documentaries to have, I suppose, a film trail that could be used for example to train officers or soldiers. The film, remained in the "drawers" of the United States military until Thames television (ITV) in 1973 - 74 for the program "The World at War" took it out of the drawer after almost 30 years.
The program was broadcast first in England, and then a few times after, sometimes several years, especially for translations, in other countries. It is not therefore, a question of a massive worldwide distribution as other documents may have been, but rather of a fairly confidential presentation reserved for history buffs and a few curious.
LGG's film became really "popular" much later, when the internet appeared in the years 2000 - 2010. This therefore means that contrary to what one might think LGG's image was not broadcast massively after the war but well almost 50 years later and has a very small audience. No one can deny that the identification of an individual will be all the easier if it is carried out by mass dissemination of the wanted notice and in the shortest possible time. There are likely some people who know the identity of LGG, but still do not know that it is being searched. So there is nothing abnormal about it that no one has ever recognized her.
Should we renounce to identifying this young lady? Personally, I don't think so. A possible solution would be for example that there is somewhere a fundraising, that a capital is constituted and that an important media "GOOGLE / YOUTUBE" for example broadcasts very widely and offers a reward to the one who will allow to identify this unknown with of course an obligation to demonstrate the identity of LGG by photographs and / or official acts.
There is, of course, the possibility of heavenly support or the chance that someone, one day stumbles upon a photo, movie or forum, but I don't really believe it. If either of you notices an error in the text that you manifest please let me know, errare humanum este!
Salutations to all

RenardR31

RenardR31
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by RenardR31 » 21 Aug 2020 20:19

Good morning all
Is there someone on the forum who can provide information on the shooting equipment (camera), on the type and duration of the films used by the American army in 1945
thank you
greeting
RenardR31

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 22 Aug 2020 21:28

I agree with RenardR31 because the identity of LGG is not known, I saw that filming of her on the BBC World at War program in 1986 where her image appeared when the rapes of German women by Russian troops were shown, in that time did not take much importance, until in 2012 several videos began to appear where she appeared again with the same theme, in 2019 after finding the LGG video set to music by naszpanrobert on YouTube, I began to ask who this girl was, and So I got to this forum looking for answers, with the passage of time it became exciting and at the same time very frustrating when I did not find any answers about who she was or what was hers, unfortunately I only have the videos that are on youtube to find answers Another thing I try to do is try to put together the video filmed by the then Captain Oren W. Haglund in chronological order, LGG was filmed on May 8, 1945 and implies that they were filmed. Ions of the German troops who surrendered in Pilsen were taken on May 10 or 11, 1945, it would imply that LGG was taken by the US Army to the area controlled by them and placed in a prison camp for women That she was outside of Pilsen, but since everything is just theory, one tries to find something that leads to a little information about her, inside I would like to believe that she was Lara or Lore Bauer or Matilde as one assumption said grandson since at least what they told they had or has a peaceful life, in this time I have tried to contact German historians or history programs like the DW to find some information about her but until now I was ignored, I kept trying .
As time goes by I have more questions than answers, I also have the idea that we may never know who she is, which I think the myth will grow and more people will wonder who is LGG?

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