1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
Stephan
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Stephan » 31 May 2023 22:28

We see LGG sitting together with some civilian clad SS-men. In another sequence we see civilian clad SS-men, probably stuck in belly and left to dy by themselves... Those of us whom looked closely at these clips; are these men the same?? Do someone recognize anyone of the resting as later on dying??

IF so, there is quite a some possibility also LGG got killed at the same occasion.... Even if she being female, could get a more or less different treatment...

If these killers KNEW LGG although formally registered as SS was just a flakhelferinnen, they could perhaps let her go... If they thought she was from a konc lager crew, not. (I know not very far from there WAS a smallish conc Lager for female prisoners; liberated by the polish brigade of NSZ partisans).

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 01 Jun 2023 00:14

Hello Stephan
All this group was sent that same May 8 to Pilsen and they would be detained if nothing bad happened until July 4, 1945, this can be seen in the videos of Haglund and his partner Lindsay (Haglund "18 SFP 9196" minute 21: 46 and Lindsay "18 SFP 9176" minute 14:33) and it is confirmed by inhabitants of those places who identify the places that were filmed, as everything unfortunately there is no filming or data to confirm if LGG was sent to Pilsen
On Oct 09, 2020, the forum member FF7_12 uploaded a comparison with a member who appears sitting next to LGG and is very similar to another that if it is observed that he is sent to Pilsen that May 8
FF7_12 wrote:
09 Oct 2020 15:50
I reckon the guy sitting to the right of LGG is also in the marchers, or at least there is a very plausible resemblance in my view. Open neck and the cord with the ID tag hanging from neck is visible in both pictures. Size, hairtsyle, mouth expression, smile, water bottle.
See pics below.
ImageImageImage

On May 8 of this year I uploaded some images accompanied by maps of where these films take place and photos of an inhabitant of that place
Greetings

bentleyhugh
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by bentleyhugh » 15 Jun 2023 08:17

Uncle John wrote:
14 May 2023 11:57
Wait a minute, I was thinking....LGG walked alone on the road?.....hmmm 

I don't think "Hollywood" Haglund first saw her walking on the road like that by herself .....no way, too dangerous.
I think he first saw her with some fellow Germans on the side of the road and asked her to take a walk alone for filming...... 

That's what I think.......maybe, I'm wrong.
Did he ask for her name?  Can't say.....maybe he didn't care back then.
I have always thought that the solo walk was staged by Haglund. He was a Hollywood guy after all. no way she walked down that road alone, she would have never made it. I do not think he'd be surprised we were discussing the whole episode all these decades later as her look and situation and what she symbolized as the war was winding down was not lost on him either.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 17 Jun 2023 22:05

irishmain wrote:
26 May 2023 20:51
I have been so inspired by this thread, over the years. Not just in the desire to find the identity of the Lady. That has faded somewhat. But in the unexpected kindness shown by certain people here, who have dedicated so much research and time. I guess sometimes we are not meant to find all the answers. Or at least, expect to be disappointed. LGG has not and will not be forgotten. I propose a meet up near the video locations for May 2025. Plenty of time for us to plan. Just a day or two to meet up those who are lucky enough to be able to travel and maybe also see a bigger picture here, than just finding the identity. A symbolic gesture of harmony. Greetings from Dublin, Ireland. And thanks once again, to you all.
Hello
I would love to go if the economy of my country (Argentina) improves a little, if so, I would gladly join that adventure
greetings

irishmain
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by irishmain » 18 Jun 2023 17:34

Hi Carlos, I have set a reminder for August 2024 to hopefully return here and refresh the plan for May 2025. Thank you for your great work here btw.

Peacenik
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Peacenik » 19 Jun 2023 11:59

Was LGG holding banknotes? I thought it was a deck of playing cards?

Peacenik
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Peacenik » 19 Jun 2023 12:05

CarlosXander wrote:
01 Jun 2023 00:14
Hello Stephan
All this group was sent that same May 8 to Pilsen and they would be detained if nothing bad happened until July 4, 1945, this can be seen in the videos of Haglund and his partner Lindsay (Haglund "18 SFP 9196" minute 21: 46 and Lindsay "18 SFP 9176" minute 14:33) and it is confirmed by inhabitants of those places who identify the places that were filmed, as everything unfortunately there is no filming or data to confirm if LGG was sent to Pilsen
On Oct 09, 2020, the forum member FF7_12 uploaded a comparison with a member who appears sitting next to LGG and is very similar to another that if it is observed that he is sent to Pilsen that May 8
FF7_12 wrote:
09 Oct 2020 15:50
I reckon the guy sitting to the right of LGG is also in the marchers, or at least there is a very plausible resemblance in my view. Open neck and the cord with the ID tag hanging from neck is visible in both pictures. Size, hairtsyle, mouth expression, smile, water bottle.
See pics below.
ImageImageImage

On May 8 of this year I uploaded some images accompanied by maps of where these films take place and photos of an inhabitant of that place
Greetings
Re the two pictures of the man (men). I see no likeness at all. The man in the first pic has a longer, narrower face. The one in the second has a wider forehead.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Post by CarlosXander » 20 Jun 2023 02:45

hello Peacenik
Finding out that he has bills in his hand was a great investigation and contribution to the LGG investigation of this forum.
I leave you the thread of that investigation
a cordial greetings Carlos
P.D.: thanks for your comment Irishmain

stello wrote:
21 Dec 2010 21:27
Hello Forum,

I noted that pdf files have no preview on the thread, so I thought to upload again my last three pdf files as jpg images (as smaller than pdf files):
pictures 01 and 02: comparison among a still-frame taken from LGG’s footage and a 1940 100 Korun Bohemia-Moravia banknote;
picture 03: the “red book” and some German documents with red cover.

Cheers all, Stefano
Image
Image
Image

Gradus
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by Gradus » 27 Jun 2023 21:11

irishmain wrote:
18 Jun 2023 17:34
Hi Carlos, I have set a reminder for August 2024 to hopefully return here and refresh the plan for May 2025. Thank you for your great work here btw.
Count me in too. And yes, please do pick this up later. It's a great idea to get together in that Pilsen area.

ignacioosacar1
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by ignacioosacar1 » 01 Jul 2023 14:11

Dar Forum ,

The banknotes and ID´s investigation was carried out by The italian forumember STELLO long ago, among other very valuable contributions.

Cheers all!

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 22 Jul 2023 14:24

Hello people of the forum
A curiosity and a clarification at the same time
Many have uploaded the photo of a civilian woman in a dress very similar to LGG, unfortunately that filming is in another place and another time, that filming took place near the German city of Tannenbergsthal dealing with the border of what was then Czechoslovakia at the end of April, it is further north of where LGG was filmed, that filming belongs to the cameraman Linday who would later join Haglund on May 4th already in Czechoslovakia in the direction of Pil sen (Pilsen would be released on May 6 and Rokycany on May 7, the US's maximum advance in Czechoslovakia), to add more, all those prisoners remained there and the civilians, after being searched, were released immediately, that woman, if she did not join the wehrmacht, was released immediately, I leave the video in good quality
greetings

Image
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Video
https://youtu.be/bSIk7yUHzrQ

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 21 Aug 2023 15:25

hello dear forum

When I found this forum, when I read it I liked the debates that were held on a topic, this was very useful to clarify certain things and formulate more ideas
I would like to generate a debate so that with ideas we can analyze certain facts and their clarification

My question would be "Why was LGG attacked?"

In the filming of that day, 4 women appear and only LGG was attacked, 2 civilian women are observed, one of them is seen at the entrance to the town of Myto and then the 2 near the city of Pilsen without any apparent damage
Image
near the town of Myto
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near the city of Pilsen
Image
Image

Image

The third one that is the most filmed, is an older woman, possibly a helferin, she is observed at the entrance to the town of Myto, at the exit of Rokycany and then near the city of Pilsen, this woman is clearly seen to be in the group of prisoners who were attacked and she in the filming and near Pilsen no visible damage is observed, she was not attacked like the 2 previous civilians
inside the town of Myto
Image
Rokycany exit
Image
near the city of Pilsen
Image

Image

My theory of why you already know her and is that first LGG was confused with a man because of her clothing, when she was attacked and then they realized that she was a woman, she was stripped of her clothes as punishment and that is why she appears with those clothes or perhaps that was his clothes under the coat he was wearing since he keeps his identification and money that could have been recovered from his clothes as well

Another theory that I formulate is that possibly she is a Czech collaborator because of the viciousness with which she was attacked and being the only one of the women mentioned who was severely beaten, perhaps the civilians are not of Czech origin and obviously the older woman is not either.

These are my ideas of why the aggression against LGG

Greetings

DD66
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by DD66 » 22 Aug 2023 00:32

I think LGG was attacked on 8th May, the day before the bulk of the German army was passing through (on 9th May).
A small group of retreating germans was attacked on the 8th between Ejpovice and Rokycany and they ran into the woods to escape. I think LGG was with this group.
When she was filmed on the road there were no other Germans, except a small group sitting nearby. In another scene LGG was filmed sitting with them.

There was other fighting going on in the area as described in the chronicles of Ejpovice, Kyšice and Letkov.
Posted by Raven (CZ) on 17 Jun 2014, post number 1393.

Quote: "24.4.1945 big group of SS units came to Kyšice, equipped with tanks, APCs etc. Officers were located in kyšice, others in Ejpovice and Letkov.Compared to Wehrmacht units, they acted like the year would be 1942, martial law was active in Protectorate Bohemia and Moravia, including stealing valuables, food and beating people, luckyli nobody was killed yet.

During forenoon of 4.5.1945, around 10:00, radio connection to Plzeň is lost. Commander decided to send a motobike unit there to find out what is going on, unit returns in about 1,5 hour, without bike, weapons, shoes tellijng commander, that there is an uprising in Plzeň, Wehrmancth units fled and only units there are some SS. He also informs him, that US Army units are on the borders of Plzeň. All soldiers are very nervous, including commanding staff, because they have lack of food, fuel etc. At 12:30 commander of SS unit ordered mayor of Kyšice to take care of the military technique (tanks, APCs etc.) until they return and orders soldiers to march towards Letkov, because they can hear shooting, including tank shots comming from Červený Hrádek (west from Kyšice). They have met some US army recon units on main road between Plzeň and Rokycany and once they finaly reached Letkov, they found out, there are also some US army units already, so they turn aroudn back to Kyšice, but now it wasn't macrh but pure escape, leaving some small units in woods around Letkov, mostly stragglers. Main part of this unit hide themselves in woods N and NE from Ejpovice and Kyšice, fighting was going on untill the early morning of 8.5.1945, or more precisely to the night from 7.5. to 8.5.1945. When the most of the fanatics are killed and the rest are surrendering, as an example of fanaticism at the end of the WW2, 7.5.1945 small recon unit of 3 US army soldiers is captured by 8 SS soldiersaround 22:00, but after 50-60mins they are set free by local citizens from Kyšice, who took their hunting rifles and also german weapons and killed 6 SS soldiers.

From 30.4.1945 local villages are full of german civilians, mostly clerks and their families, there are 30-60 new persons every day.
8.5. forenoon, first german troops are incoming from Prague, with white towel in front. They are stopped by US army units and every person is checked, all are germans, no polish, russian or otehr nations, like someone said in the past. SS soldiers have tried to hide in this group of Wehrmacht soldiers, but when they saw, that SS soldiers have been taken on different place than members Wehrmacht, part of them tries to escape, heading to group of civilians using them as a living shield, so they can run to the bridge, throught the gardens to the woods NE from Ejpovice. They failed and 8 of them are killed on the bridge and some others on the main road, field and in the garden. Totaly 26 persons are killed. Rest of the surviving SS are captured and held near the road west of Ejpovice. Group of those 2000 persons are taken to Plzeň, where is 2. infantry division of US Army situated and that is taking care of them. That's first and last group that is taken to Plzeň, others are placed on the field around Ejpovice, to the end of the day, number rises to 40 000 souls.

On the fields around Ejpovice were created temporary POW camps. On the west side, few metters from location of LGG was SS camp, around field road called Domkářka (which is now short street in Ejpovice), on the east side of Ejpovice was camp for Wehrmacht and other persons."

wirklich
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by wirklich » 11 Sep 2023 18:20

CarlosXander wrote:
21 Aug 2023 15:25
hello dear forum

When I found this forum, when I read it I liked the debates that were held on a topic, this was very useful to clarify certain things and formulate more ideas
I would like to generate a debate so that with ideas we can analyze certain facts and their clarification

My question would be "Why was LGG attacked?"

In the filming of that day, 4 women appear and only LGG was attacked, 2 civilian women are observed, one of them is seen at the entrance to the town of Myto and then the 2 near the city of Pilsen without any apparent damage
Image
near the town of Myto
Image
near the city of Pilsen
Image
Image

Image

The third one that is the most filmed, is an older woman, possibly a helferin, she is observed at the entrance to the town of Myto, at the exit of Rokycany and then near the city of Pilsen, this woman is clearly seen to be in the group of prisoners who were attacked and she in the filming and near Pilsen no visible damage is observed, she was not attacked like the 2 previous civilians
inside the town of Myto
Image
Rokycany exit
Image
near the city of Pilsen
Image

Image

My theory of why you already know her and is that first LGG was confused with a man because of her clothing, when she was attacked and then they realized that she was a woman, she was stripped of her clothes as punishment and that is why she appears with those clothes or perhaps that was his clothes under the coat he was wearing since he keeps his identification and money that could have been recovered from his clothes as well

Another theory that I formulate is that possibly she is a Czech collaborator because of the viciousness with which she was attacked and being the only one of the women mentioned who was severely beaten, perhaps the civilians are not of Czech origin and obviously the older woman is not either.

These are my ideas of why the aggression against LGG

Greetings
Reasons why one woman would be attacked and not another.
Just because they can be.
They are at the wrong place at the wrong time.
They come into contact with a more aggressive/armed or larger group of people.
They are German.
They are in a small group that is not armed.
They are in a small group that carries weapons.
They are known by the attackers and not liked.
They are known by the attackers to have done something wrong.
They are associated with someone that has done something wrong.
They are alone.
They are in a small group that runs away/fights back and is attacked.
They are with SS.
They are SS.
They are military not civilian.
They are a civilian from another country.
They are a Czech civilian that was friendly with Germans.
They are a Czech that was in the German military. Willingly or drafted.
They are wearing a military uniform.
They are dressed like a man.
They acted defiant.
They are considered to be attractive.
They are considered to be not attractive.

The only way to find out what may have happened to the dead/dying German soldiers the woman may have been with is to find the places where it happened.
Using a metal detector start where the bodies were. Work outward in a circle as far as you can go. Several soldiers were shot. The cartridge cases will still be there. Some where. That will identify where the ammunition was made. If it was civilians they could have had German or Czech weapons. If they are American, then they were shot by Americans.
If they were shot close the cases would be next to the bodies. My guess would be close to no more than 100 meters.
And if some were shot while lying on the ground the bullets would would still be in the ground.
The evidence is still there. Around many of the bodies you can see personal belongings/equipment. Much of it will still be there.
It would not be hard to find with a metal detector. Cans of food, a small flashlight can be seen around one. There would be buttons, forks. knives and other metallic personal items. Grass would grow over them and they would be hidden from sight.
Chances of someone picking these items up is not very good. After the bodies were removed there would be no reason for someone to go there. In the 1960's I found military items in a forest next to the house I lived in on top of the ground close to a German town.

I do not think that the person or people that attacked the woman intended to kill her. I think it was to punish her. Her injuries are not severe. Pick your reason. None can be proved.

As can be seen in many videos of film footage from Eastern Europe, civilians/military did not hesitate to brutally attack or kill women in civilian clothes. Out in the open with other people watching. While being filmed.
This woman is wearing what appears to be a female military uniform. Another women is seen wearing what appears to be the same clothes.
If she was with the soldiers that were killed and some were SS and were armed, why would she not be killed or brutally beaten? Especially if she was SS? Did they know her?
There are no weapons to be seen around the bodies. Were they already picked up or were they unarmed?
I don't think the American soldiers would have beat the Germans to the extent that some were but I can see them shooting them if they ran away. Even if they were unarmed.
Some of the Germans were shot. Some appear to have been beaten. Some appear to have been run over.

I can see an American soldier hitting her. Just because he can.
I can see a German soldier hitting her and forcing her to go with him. Just because he can.
I can see a civilian hitting her. Just because he can.
I think she wears the same clothes as when she was attacked.

The dead Germans were taken away and buried. There is film footage of other Germans on a cart being taken away to be buried by civilians.
Were these bodies ever exhumed and returned to Germany? Some of the dead and dying can be seen with an EK around their neck.
The names of the dead, location/date and where found would be in an archive.

It was revenge for what she was...or was thought to be.

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CarlosXander
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Re: 1945 Lost German girl

Post by CarlosXander » 15 Sep 2023 16:35

Hello dear forum
This theory was posted not long ago.
Was LGG pregnant?
Looking again at her video, you can see a swelling in her abdomen, implying that she was possibly several months pregnant. The post was not commented much, implying that that was what it was. Looking more determinedly, that swelling would be more underneath a The conclusion that is being considered is because of the pants she wears that give her that appearance, another that I think is possible that she does have intestinal swelling, but when showing the video to several mothers with children, they point out to me that if she is pregnant, it is at their discretion that Possible conclusion can be achieved, this would be one more penalty for LGG than with all the pain and even more so now carrying a pregnancy with one more burden.
Greetings
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