1945 Lost German girl

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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Peter H
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Peter H » 19 Feb 2009 11:46

An opinion post by Firefoxy has been removed.

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 19 Feb 2009 12:27

Dear Frogfoot,

Very good observations! You made me watch the film one again!
Did you notice the shadows proyected by the trees and the milestone ?
What is your opinion on the bearing of the road at that precise spot ?
Unfortunately we do not know if it was early morning or late afternoon, but we do know what the orientation E-W is.
I am stuying road 605 ( Prague-Pilsen ). I am almost sure that is the road. I am using Google Earth to find coincident features in directions and terrain. Very hard work based on uncertain assumptions.

Ignacio

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FireFoxy
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby FireFoxy » 19 Feb 2009 12:48

Was this girl a SS German Soldier?or a normal Girl? She is wearing mens soldier clothes!like an average German soldier uniform?
Is there any websites with information on this girl? This German girl story reminds me of the young vietnam girl from the vietnam war ,when she was naked and injured running down the road.
Some of you members have mention that you have seen the whole footage (German girl Story).Does any one have the whole footage to view? I would like to see it please!Any chance of posting it for me to view?
Sorry for all the questions,i'm really interested in this story and girl :wink:
V = VICTORY

ignacioosacar
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 19 Feb 2009 15:33

Hello Fire Foxy,
a) Utube : Lost German girl
b) www.ushmm.org / Steven Spielberg Archives / Nazis / 1020
Bye
Ignacio

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Tonyny44
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Tonyny44 » 19 Feb 2009 19:41

FireFoxy wrote:Was this girl a SS German Soldier?or a normal Girl? She is wearing mens soldier clothes!like an average German soldier uniform?
Is there any websites with information on this girl? This German girl story reminds me of the young vietnam girl from the vietnam war ,when she was naked and injured running down the road.
Some of you members have mention that you have seen the whole footage (German girl Story).Does any one have the whole footage to view? I would like to see it please!Any chance of posting it for me to view?
Sorry for all the questions,i'm really interested in this story and girl :wink:


You and me both. I hope something more can be dug up.

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FireFoxy
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby FireFoxy » 19 Feb 2009 23:48

ignacioosacar wrote:Hello Fire Foxy,
a) Utube : Lost German girl
b) http://www.ushmm.org / Steven Spielberg Archives / Nazis / 1020
Bye
Ignacio


Hey ignaciooacar.

U- tube!Will that give me the long version? It's hard too find the long version footage. I'll have a look :wink:

Hi Tony44.

I have type in everything under google about *Lost German Girl*and the same short footage comes up nothing more.
I don't like our chances! :cry:
V = VICTORY

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Frogfoot » 20 Feb 2009 04:06

When you get to http://www.ushmm.org, go to the "Research" tab, and scroll down to "Collections and Archives", then "Steven Spielberg Film and Video Archive" and then paste,"Liberated Czechoslovakia; wounded and dead Germans; POWs" into the search bar. Once you get to the page with the still photos at the bottom, the two clips with her in them are about 3/4th of the way through. The second one shows her to be in somewhat better condition, sitting with some men, and she's got her boots/shoes off and her trouser legs pulled up, and she's holding a bag on her swollen eye. Maybe they've got their feet in some water. Anyway, good luck.

Bcc335
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Bcc335 » 20 Feb 2009 10:17

Frogfoot wrote:Hi, everyone, new guy here. I remember seeing this haunting footage some years ago, and it stuck in my mind. Look at her hands, particularly her right one in the first part of the footage. It appears to be badly swollen. Unless it's a flaw in the film, the knuckles on her left hand appear to be swollen also. Maybe she fought as hard as she could before being overwhelmed. She does appear to acknowledge the cameraman very briefly when it looks like she's shaking her head "No" at him from 0:16 - 0:20. Might those items she's holding be pictures? She's clasping them between her hands as if they are very precious to her and maybe all she has left. At the very end, it looks like she peels one of them off and is holding it up to her face.


The item she is holding is a deck of playing cards.

For those of you who are studying the film forget the Youtube versions. Go to the ushmm.org link here: http://resources.ushmm.org/film/display ... e_num=4686

This version can be set to full screen in WMP11 and also can be ran in slo motion by right clicking and then accessing the appropriate options.

I have studied the film extensively using this method and I typed up a post with some new information concerning the film. Unfortunately when I went back to finish my draft post it was gone. I also have been trying to locate where the LOST GERMAN Film footage was taken via Google Map/Satellite view. I will try and post my latest findings and thoughts soon.

regards
Bcc335

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Bcc335 » 20 Feb 2009 12:56

Here is my latest update.

I have been unable to locate where the LOST GERMAN GIRL footage was shot.
I have been able to identify the Units at the end of the ushmm.org 25 min film.
This is the only film I deal with due to the quality and the ability to go full screen and use slow motion in WMP11.
In addition to the swollen hands, German girl may be with child.

The white post with red cap and stripe with number 78 appears to have another number underneath the 78. It appears to me to be 67 in small numbers. You can catch this number on full screen slo mo as she sways left then right.

I have ran many scenarios using Google map/satellite view and the red post marker with 78 and 67? underneath. If the 78 does in fact represent 78km from point of origin or to destination as suggested. I've tried probably 30 different scenarios using different cities a to b, b to a etc. and have yet to find it.

More new details:
If you put the film on full screen with slo motion in the top left corner you will notice a forked tree to the left of the road and just under the small light recon aircraft flying by. If you look carefully you will notice in between the forks in the background what appears to be 2 maybe 3 tall white Industrial smoke stacks.

In the foreground to the left of the forked tree and under the light recon plane at the end of the road going to the left you will note what appears to be a large gray official or historical building through the trees

My best guess at this time as to the location of the LOST GERMAN GIRL footage is Plzen. Plzen was liberated on the 6th May 45 by elements of 16 Armored Div.

I believe the 2 or 3 white smoke stacks may belong to the Skoda Works located in central Plzen, If not the Skoda works then possibly the Pilsner brewery just South of the Skoda Works,

Just South of the Skoda works in 1945 was the Bory Plzen airfield, It was Lufwaffe until Uncle Sam stopped by. :)
16th armored liberated Skoda works and the airport on morning of 6th May 45

You may recall the light recon plane at tree top level possibly taking off or landing in the film. If this is so its possible that the smokestacks could be Skoda works or Pilsner brewery and the airplane is coming or going to Bory Plzen airfield.

Based on this theory I have tried to locate via Google map/satellite view the location the LOST GERMAN GIRL footage was shot at. So far I've found nothing that resembles it. There has been extensive changes to this area. What was once a road is now a highway going through Plzen. Bory Plzen field is gone and there is a University there along with large Industrial buildings etc. If the footage was shot there its possible the road may no longer exist.

Keep in mind, just a theory, just a guess. It may turn out that this simply isn't the spot. I continue to check other possibilities by analyzing the rest of the 25 minute film to see if I can locate where any of the other scenes were shot.
I will say this. There are a couple of scenes at the end of that film where the road and landscape looks like it was right there where the LOST GERMAN GIRL footage was shot.

While checking the other scenes I have managed to identify the units rolling by right after marching pow scene at the end of the film.

Here is a vehicle by vehicle breakdown beginning at 01:24:25:27 bottom of ushmm.org as they roll by:
1st vehicle, Tank 8 ball unit Insignia
2nd vehicle, Jeep 16th Armored 26th Infantry or Tank depending on mud
3rd vehicle, Truck 16th Armored 69th Infantry, 8 ball RFF, B-11 LFF
4th vehicle, Truck 16th Armored 69th Infantry, 8 ball RFF, B-6 LFF, 2 civilians, one w/black coat and hat
5th vehicle, Jeep 16th Armored 26 Infantry, ?-25 LFF, Capt, or Colonel in passenger seat
6th vehicle, Truck 16th Armored 26 Infantry, 8 ball RFF, B-10 LFF
7th vehicle, Truck 16th Armored 26 Infantry B-?
8th vehicle, Truck 16th Armored 26 Infantry, 8 ball RFF, Female civilian back to camera kerchief on head
9th vehicle, Tank Take note of castle/church/building in distance on the hill before and after this vehicle passes

Another thing that is puzzling is the dates Haglund has on his shot placards:

On the U.S.H.M.M archive they have the date of the Lost German Girl footage as P 27 5/8/45, and on the site a large description of the scenes..

but if you watch the 25 min film at the USHMM archive you will note that the Placard used by the Cameraman Haglund that precedes the LOST GERMAN GIRL scene is dated P 26 4/9/45 and the next placard that comes up after the LOST GERMAN GIRL footage is dated P 29 4/8/45.

This may simply be that they assembled the footage out of order and the LOST GERMAN GIRL footage is from 5/8/45 but i would point out that in their description P 27 5/8/45 they reference the DEAD SS MEN and clearly the placard that precedes the DEAD SS MEN scene states 4/9/45 and 4/8/45 not may.

scenes run as follows: P26 4/9/45(DEAD SS MEN) (LOST GERMAN GIRL) P29 4/8/45(SHIRTLESS SS MAN IN DITCH) again they may have simply assembled footage out of order.

I do know they have the original shot sheet and can only guess that they took the date of LOST GERMAN GIRL footage from that. Or they simply got it mixed up. As Ignacio suggested maybe Haglund accidently put 4 when he meant 5.

Sent email to USHMM.org requesting they clarify dates and if possible scan and email shot sheet, no response

Sent email to Czech National Film Archives director requesting status of 3 reels of footage turned over by U..S. Ambassador of the Liberation of Western Czech Republic film footage. This was referenced with link earlier in this thread. Requested to know if LOST GERMAN GIRL and 25 min film @ ushmm.org was part of footage and if any filming locations had been determined, no response

Sent email to 16th Armored Div veteran that was present at Plzen guarding large group of German prisoners. He has looked at the LOST GERMAN GIRL clip on YouTube and states He does not recognize the location. If time permits and he is able he may try to view the 25 min ushmm.org film
regards,
Bcc335
Last edited by Bcc335 on 20 Feb 2009 21:34, edited 2 times in total.

Frogfoot
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Frogfoot » 20 Feb 2009 13:09

Dear Frogfoot,

Very good observations! You made me watch the film one again!
Did you notice the shadows proyected by the trees and the milestone ?
What is your opinion on the bearing of the road at that precise spot ?
Unfortunately we do not know if it was early morning or late afternoon, but we do know what the orientation E-W is.
I am stuying road 605 ( Prague-Pilsen ). I am almost sure that is the road. I am using Google Earth to find coincident features in directions and terrain. Very hard work based on uncertain assumptions.


Thank you, ignacioosacar. This is a very interesting topic. I did notice the tree shadows and the red-striped "78" post. As to the bearing of the road, I don't have a clue on that. I was thinking about something earlier, and that was that she was probably assaulted by men, because if she had been attacked by Czech women who had lost children to the Nazis, they probably would have killed her outright. I wonder what kind of interaction there was regarding the footage? In the first sequence, she walks along apparently ignoring a man in her path with a bulky movie camera, but is then shown standing unsteadily off of the road looking at him in a location very close to where the first clip cuts off. I wonder if he asked her to tell what happened to her? I'm more than likely reading in too it way too much, but it looks like she is approaching him to speak, opens her mouth and takes a breath, but changes her mind before speaking and looks down. She then looks at him and almost imperceptibly shakes her head "no" at him before looking down again, and raising her hand to her forehead. I don't know if the truth will ever be known, but I certainly hope she survived and got her life back together.

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby ignacioosacar » 21 Feb 2009 05:02

Dear Bcc 335,

Following your line of analysis I did some Google Earth recce.

5,28 Km SE of ROKUCANY you will find the town of HRADEK.

N of the town there is a industrial facility with THREE smoke stacks. There is a fourth one a short distance from the others. They look rather modern to me but you may check them out anyway.

The river KLABAVA? was probably the Limit of Advance for American forces ( considering some signs seen in other colour films of the same area and dates and the information submitted by a forum member in this same thread ). There were many troops already on the other side, racing towards Prague or holding the hills ( 500+ meters high ) E of ROKUCANY. This troops on the move are from the 16th Armored Division, as it is confirmed by history records and your vehicle identification.

Finally,

If you position yourself on the road ROKUCANY-PAVLOVSKO, just N of KAMEMMY UJEZD ( 2,77 Km SE of ROKUCANY ) you might observe, not only the matching long shadows of the trees ( just by chance! ), but also the three stacks on your left.
( you have to correct the map compass as it is always a few degrees W ).

Cheers

Ignacio

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FireFoxy
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby FireFoxy » 21 Feb 2009 07:25

Hi BCC and Frogfoot.

Both of you're links show four slides of the lost German girl, but it's still the same shorl footage!On you're link where would i find the long version footage.I am having trouble finding it :wink: Thanks.
V = VICTORY

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Frogfoot » 21 Feb 2009 07:57

The only clips I've seen are the one we've been discussing, and the shorter one where she's sitting with her feet in a small ditch. (?) I guess that's why she's got her trouser legs pulled up, anyway. That clip is four clips to the right from the ones we've been discussing, and it's only about 11 seconds long. If there are any longer clips out there, I don't know about them.

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FireFoxy
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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby FireFoxy » 21 Feb 2009 08:14

Oh ok. I was looking for the longer version,i thought you guys were telling me you had it, no worries.

Question! The Lost German girl is *German*,but the film was filmed in checz,would that make her a Checz girl or were there alot of German girls in Checz during ww2? I'm Puzzled on how /Who knew she was German in the first place?
V = VICTORY

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Re: 1945 LOST GERMAN GIRL

Postby Mauser K98k » 21 Feb 2009 17:22

FireFoxy wrote:Question! The Lost German girl is *German*,but the film was filmed in checz,would that make her a Checz girl or were there alot of German girls in Checz during ww2? I'm Puzzled on how /Who knew she was German in the first place?


I think it's just a logical conclusion. The fact that she has been beaten would indicate that she's part of the hated Nazi occupation force. Possibly a clerk typist for an SS unit as someone previously guessed. And the last brief clip of her that we see she is sitting among Nazi POW's.

If she were a Czech Nazi-collaborator she would more likely have had her head shaved and at least had a home to go to for refuge.


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