1945 Lost German girl

[stello]

Hello Ignacio, Dr Eisvogel and Forum,

First subject: the Border line
I tried to overlap on Google Earth the 1938 Sudetenland/Bohemian Moravian Protectorate border line taken from these maps:
_ B.V. KARTE nr.10 _ 1939 (http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/cgi-bin/ ... t=1.924242)
_ Shell Strassenkarte nr. 17 _ 1938 (http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/cgi-bin/ ... t=1.850000).
Dr Eisvogel assumes that the border crossing between the Reich and the Protectorate on the R14 could have been a bit east of the village of Nyrany (Nürschan).
In my opininon the border crossing on the R14 could have been near Krimice (Krimitz): either way the distances from LGG location are about 17 kilometres.

Second subject: the milestone
In my graphic work -here posted- I tried to insert the cipher "1" "21" on the milestone to check the simmetry of the cipher "17" and "217".

Third subject: the location
Ignacio, here is a comparison about my and your location, posted beside the original still frame. what do you think?

The debate is still open...

Cheers, Stefano

[Dr Eisvogel]

Hello Ignacio, Dr Eisvogel and Forum,

First subject: the Border line
I tried to overlap on Google Earth the 1938 Sudetenland/Bohemian Moravian Protectorate border line taken from these maps:
_ B.V. KARTE nr.10 _ 1939 (http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/cgi-bin/ ... t=1.924242)
_ Shell Strassenkarte nr. 17 _ 1938 (http://www.landkartenarchiv.de/cgi-bin/ ... t=1.850000).
Dr Eisvogel assumes that the border crossing between the Reich and the Protectorate on the R14 could have been a bit east of the village of Nyrany (Nürschan).
In my opininon the border crossing on the R14 could have been near Krimice (Krimitz): either way the distances from LGG location are about 17 kilometres.
Cheers, Stefano

Dear Stefano,

I think you have resolved the question of the border crossing(s).

You have provided two maps clearly showing the border on R14 being immediately east of Kosolup (Czech: Kozolupy), while I was searching for any place west of Pilsen annexed by the Reich without having the benefit of the precise maps.

I think the border was between the village of Kosolup and the village of Vochov (German: Wochow), which was in the Protectorate, just west of Krimitz (Czech: Křimice). Like on your map, the border was probably on the outskirts of Vochov.

There is one question regarding the counting of the distances (kilometers):
I presume that the road administration(s) count kilometers of the road and not the flight distances?

Best regards,
Eisvogel

P.s. The article about the American liberation of Pilsen on the pages 4-5. Especially p. 5 has chapter Konec války na Plzeňsku [The end of the War in Pilsen area] with chronology.
http://www.camelot.czweb.org/cislo8.pdf

Photo gallery: http://www.fronta.cz/fotogalerie/americ ... da-v-plzni

[stello]

There is one question regarding the counting of the distances (kilometers):
I presume that the road administration(s) count kilometers of the road and not the flight distances?

Yes, Dr Eisvogel, Google Earth counts approximately 17.5 kilometres the road between LGG location/Vochov (Wochow) and 17.0 kilometres between LGG location/Litice (Littitz) border crossings.

Stefano

[Jan2]

Hi, great job, I admire your interest in this place
I will go there for a walk with the dog, I'll look around and try to find the exact location ...

Ten years ago, we here found with metal detector is a ring, patrons, coins, cutlery, mess tins, part of the weapons.

[history1]

Hi together,

I must admit that I compared the last days for hours the images and the course of the road, trying to find that tree with the curios trunk in the back of the LGG. No luck, seems that they have been all replaced. Though for that use (planting along a road) mostly are used inured and slow growing plants.
Based on the copse (small forest) in the background it seems that Stello´s location does better fit, at least in my opinion. Additionaly I would assume that the power poles in the background are running north towards the village of Klabava.

Your thoughts are like allways appreciated.

Cheers,
Roman

[brick2]

The roadside trees may well be fruit trees,apple or pear etc. Not many people eat the fruit now due to increased traffic fumes.

[ignacioosacar]

Ciao Stello,

Beautiful work!

The milestone work leaves little doubts. It is a two digits number. Three digits would put if off the axis ( unless the at the time ( painter was drunk ! )

Your landscape photo matches the original photo doubtlessly.

My appraisal was mainly based on the white unpaved intersection which seems to have disappeared today.

There is also a low white wall or structure where this road connects to the main road. I cannot identify what it is.

Possibly its foundings or other remains are still there.

Again, Chapeau Stello!

Ignacio

[ignacioosacar]

Dear Forum

Lets wait for Jan 2 to give us his in situ oppinion.

Cheers!

Ignacio

[Dr Eisvogel]

Dear colleagues,

Stefano convincingly demonstrated for the milestone numbers 78 and 17 and its location between Prague and the Reich border.

However, regarding the milestone itself I will pose some questions which should be answered in order to have full understanding about the milestone.

1. Whose road administration erected it? Was it:
a) Austria-Hungary
b) Czechoslovak Republic
c) German Reich (through the Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia)

Currently the answer seems to be c), although it might have also been b) in the period 1938/39. The answer is based on idea that 17 means the distance to Reich border.

2. What category of the road would be equipped with such milestones:
a) Reichsstraße
b) Landesstraße
c) Kreisstraße
etc.

We are operating with the premise that it is a Reichsstraße, more precisely Reichsstraße 14 (R14).

3. If we expect a milestone used along the Reichsstraße 14 (R14) what colour should it be:
a) red on white
b) yellow on white
c) green on white
etc.

Now, I have indication that the expected colour along the Reichsstraßen should be yellow, that is the first problem to solve.

There is an example of a "yellow top" road sign of a similar design to ours with the number 14 - probably pointing to the distance to Prague. However, the period when it was erected and for which category of the road is unknown, but it could be on the Prague-Linz road.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... lem_14.jpg

Some information for Stefano.
Milestones (Kilometersteine) used by Deutsches Reichsbahn (DRB) [German railways]:
http://www.rst-modellbau.de/shop/images ... %202.2.jpg
http://www.modellgetriebe.de/aInfrastru ... hnung1.jpg
By analogy the milestones along the roads should have followed the same principle of applying numbers, which would support the thesis that the lower number has two digits, 17.

Czech milestones:
1.) Kilometrovníky = kilometer stones:
http://www.starecesty.cz/kilometrovniky/
Note the lowest three milestones with the green tops. They are without details, but I would guess that they belong to the roads of the lower category than the milestones with the red tops, however the design seems similar.

2.) Patníky
http://www.starecesty.cz/patniky/

Best regards,
Eisvogel

[jjoe]

Google Street View of the approx. location

https://maps.google.ca/maps?saddr=Route ... 6,,0,14.97

[history1]

I just wonder that nobody picked up my suggestion with the power poles. Shouldn´t we be able to track down their run in that years or shortly after WWII? AFAIK, municipal offices hold often maps with it also the local supplier of electric energy should be a chance to get infos. Don´t know how this matter is dealed in CR but hopefully Jan2 will respond.

[brick2]

Thrashing a dead horse researching the location,Torsten identyfied the location back on page 13,should be looking for anecdotal evidence of who were the first units to head west from Prague or it's outlying areas.

[stello]

Thrashing a dead horse researching the location,Torsten identyfied the location back on page 13...

Torsten's research marked undoubtedly the turning point in the search for LGG location.

Cheers, Stefano

[jmkas]

Not sure how I came across the clip of LGG, but my research and desire to know more led me here.

So haunting.

Thanks for the discussion. I have enjoyed reading it.

Joe

[ignacioosacar]

Dear Forum,

I would be a good idea to read again what Torsten said in page 13 !

Cheers!

Ignacio