Ilse Göring

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KimDK
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Ilse Göring

Post by KimDK » 23 Jan 2010 11:20

Hi

Can anyone help me with information on DRK Generalführerin Ilse Göring ?

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Grisu
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Grisu » 01 Feb 2010 16:35

This book might be a good start (see table of contents).

KimDK
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by KimDK » 02 Feb 2010 16:45

Hi
Thank you, knows the book, but unfortunately it is not the right Ilse Göring as mentioned .. The book mentions Ilse, the daughter of Karl Göring, and I am seeking information about the big sister to Karl and Herman..

Kim

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Grisu
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Grisu » 02 Feb 2010 19:46

So, the Ilse Göring you're looking for is not Hermann Göring's sister-in-law? As far as I know, Göring had two sisters, Olga (Rigele) and Paula (don't remember her later family name), and no sister called Ilse - or am I entirely wrong?

KimDK
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by KimDK » 03 Feb 2010 16:20

Hi
Hemann had half sister from his father's first marriage ..
Ilse Göring, born ca. 1875 ..

Kim

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Heimatschuss » 26 Aug 2010 16:22

Hello Kim,

you are mixing up Hermann Göring's step-sister Frieda (born 1875) with her daughter Ilse (born 1898). The latter also was sister-in-law of Hermann Göring due to her marriage with Hermann's brother Karl Ernst Göring. For details of the Göring family have a look here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 1#p1498581

The infomation that Ilse was the sister of Hermann Göring seems to orginate from David Irving though it looks more like sloppy proof-reading than actual flaw. In his 1989 biography of Hermann Irving shifts between Ilse being Hermann's sister (p.344, 828) and being his sister-in-law (p.497). That she acurally was his sister-in-law one could already find in Emmy Göring's autobiography (1967, p.316) and it's improbable that this source would be ignored by any serious Göring biographer.

It appears that Karl Ernst & Ilse Göring had (at least) three sons:
- Peter (see http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 2#p1498572)
- Ernst (Mosley, 1975, p.295) (arrested in summer 1944 after the attempt on Hitler's life)
- Heinz (Lange, 1950, p.92)

While the identity of Peter is fairly sure from various sources the other sons are just referenced in one Google snippet each, thus may be counted as uncertain knowledge.

In 1939 Ilse Göring was appointed Generalführerin in the German Red Cross. She took over the position of Bereitschaftsdienstleiterin (w) in DRK-Präsidium (steering committee of the German Red Cross) (Ruediger, 1962, p.83).

On Jan 17th, 1943 Ilse Göring married her second husband Rudolfs Diels, the former head of the Gestapo. It seems this wasn't so much of a love affair but Diels actually trying to gain the protection of Hermann Göring as he was constantly harassed by the Gestapo already. The marriage only lasted till autumn 1944 when Hermann Göring struck a deal with Diels. For being saved from the gallow which he was going to get due to his role in the conspiracy against Hitler, Diels had to agree into divorce from Ilse (N.N., 1949, p.8).

While compiling the lines above I've also come about a clot of other false information on her in all kinds of books:

- Ilse was Hermann's cousin. (An idea obviously based on the low age difference but unfounded.)

- Ilse was the widow of Wilhelm Göring (Hermann's oldest step-brother).

- Karl Ernst Göring, her later husband, already died in WW I.

- Ilse married Rudolf Diels before 1933, or in 1938, or in 1942 :lol: Pick a year that suits you.


References:

Göring, Emmy
An der Seite meines Mannes
Verlag K.W. Schütz; Preußisch Oldendorf; 1967

Irving, David
Goring. A Biography
Focal Point Publishing; 1989

Lange, Eitel
Der Reichsmarschall im Kriege. Ein Bericht in Wort und Bild.
Curt E. Schwab Verlag; Stuttgart; 1950

Mosley, Leonard
Göring. Eine Biographie
Verlag Kurt Desch; Munich; 1975

N.N.
Ich will keinen Gehenkten.
Der Spiegel; May 12, 1949; Heft20/1949; p.6-8
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-44436848.html

Ruediger, Wilma
Frauen im Dienst der Menschlichkeit.
Erlebtes im "Deutschen Roten Kreuz" von 1914 bis Friedland.
J.F. Lehmanns Verlag; Munich; 1962

Pictures:
Top photo: http://www.sz-photo.de/suddeutsche-zeitung-photo/hilfe/
Bottom photo: http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl Image No. 45479

Best regards
Torsten
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KimDK
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by KimDK » 29 Aug 2010 12:30

Hello Torsten
Many thanks for a very detailed and exciting answers.
Now I understand who is who, I think :-)
Special thanks to the fine pictures of Ilse

It's always a pleasure to read your posts.
Greetings
kim

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Heimatschuss » 09 Jul 2012 13:09

Hello,

the best description of the marriage between Ilse Göring and Rudolfs Diels I've read so far is in Wallbaum (2009, pp.169-172).

They knew each other since 1933. According to Diels their relationship was so close already by 1938 that Hermann Göring asked him to make it public (i.e. announce an engagement). When Diels was appointed director of inland shipping for the 'Reichswerke Hermann Göring' in 1941/42 Göring seems to have regarded this as a kind of dowry so Diels would finally marry Ilse. When he didn't start the administrative procedures necessary (since Diels was SS officer he needed Himmler's consent to marry) this owned him an angry rebuke from Göring.

During the Nuremburg trials Diels tried to give the impression that the wedding primarily resulted from Hermann and Ilse exerting pressure on him to which he finally gave in. On the other hand Ilse later testified she had a decade long sympathy for Diels and wanted to get him Hermann Göring's protection when his position became critical again in 1942 after defeatist remarks. Hermann appears to mainly have been looking for a new bride groom for Ilse. When she showed so much interest in Diels, his former minion, his main aim became to have the case fixed in a way socially acceptable.

Wallbaum who has looked through all of Ilse'S statements about Diels got the impression that she indeed harboured great sympathy for the notoious philanderer, even after their divorce. After the war Ilse moved to Katzenelnbogen, hometown of Diels and ran the chicken farm on his parents' estate. She also testified on his behalf during his Spruchkammer trial (Spruchkammer = political purge court).

References:

Wallbaum, Klaus
Der Überläufer. Rudolf Diels (1900-1957) - der erste Gestapo-Chef des Hitler-Regimes.
Verlag Peter Lang; Frankfurt (Main); 2009
http://tinyurl.com/cpcnkqb

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Heimatschuss » 09 Jul 2012 13:20

Some further tidings on the children of Karl Ernst & Ilse Göring also popped up in the attached newspaper article from the Santa Fe New Mexican
http://www.santafenewmexican.com/localn ... tive-guilt
Learning to overcome the collective guilt
Tom Sharpe | The New Mexican
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2012

Bettina Goering, 55, was born a decade after her infamous great-uncle killed himself by taking poison the night before he was to hang for war crimes, after his conviction at the Nuremberg Trials. But his legacy haunted her.

She ran away from home at 13, took drugs, lived in communes and in several countries, had a mental breakdown and had herself sterilized. But, she said, her problem was with her extended family, not her parents.

"My father [Heinz Goering] wasn't a Nazi," Bettina Goering said. "He was a liberal, if anything, bohemian. ... He was this utterly unambitious guy who would have loved to study forever."

Like his two brothers, Heinz Goering loved to fly, and even though he needed corrective lenses, he became a military pilot through the influence of his powerful uncle. His brothers died on suicide missions, while Heinz Goering was shot down over the Soviet Union, captured and held in a prison camp until 1950.

Because he was a Goering, he was treated badly in the Russian camp and "looked like a skeleton" upon his release. He met his wife after the war when he delivered buttons and zippers to her tailor shop.

Bettina Goering said her mother was their household's principal breadwinner -- common in postwar Germany -- while her father ran a stamp and coin shop, studied anthropology and worked on excavations of Roman ruins in Germany.

Her grandmother, Ilse Goering, was a "real Nazi" and an upper-class snob who believed "anybody else was beneath her," "never forgave my father that he wasn't a hero, that he wasn't injured" and scoffed at documentaries on the Holocaust. "She would just say, 'Lies! All lies!' " Bettina Goering recalled.

She added that she has learned more about her extended family by attending a recent Goering family reunion -- the first in 50 or more years.

Bettina Goering moved to Santa Fe in 1991 with her German-born husband, Adi Pieper, whom she met in America. He is an electrical contractor who teaches at Santa Fe Community College and jokes about her family, calling her "the general."

Her older brother also lives in the area, but Goering said he does not want to be identified publicly. "He's funny," she said. "He's supportive of what I do, but he doesn't want to be involved at all."

Bettina Goering uses another surname in Santa Fe, and asked that it not be revealed in this article. She said she is not as worried about those who hate her great-uncle as she is of adoration from neo-Nazis, who "make me cringe."

Even though she believed she had largely overcome the collective guilt of being a member of her clan, it came flooding back when she began thinking about the Russian documentary crew's visit while she and her husband were in Thailand earlier this year. Through a role-playing therapy called Family Constellations, she said, she realized she was feeling the pain that the Nazis inflicted on Russia.

"This might sound weird, but there are a lot of souls still hanging around from these traumatic events and they are sort of in limbo," she said. "They are the ones who really need to be released and so many people, with their pain, hold onto them. If you have to push down the pain, you don't deal with it, but it's still there."
So Karl Ernst and Ilse Göring indeed had three sons:
- Peter pilot, KIA 1941
- Ernst pilot, KIA (name still needs confirmation)
- Heinz pilot, POW (in Soviet Union, released in 1950), died 1981

Similar reports about Bettina Göring already appeared in 2008 - 2010

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2008 ... 7297_x.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... nster.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe ... -feel.html

though some details on the family are different. The year 1950 must be correct for the return of Heinz Göring. After that there only was the release of alleged German war criminals in 1956. The death of his brothers has changed from suicide out of shame to flying suicide mission for the Luftwaffe now. There seems to be quite some latitude in what Bettina Göring tells her audience.

Best regards
Torsten

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Heimatschuss » 25 Jan 2015 12:29

Hello,

the second son of Karl Ernst and Ilse Göring was Helmuth Göring. Here's his death note from a 1944 copy of the student magazine 'Die Bewegung':
Helmuth Goering.JPG
Source: Die Bewegung [Munich] from Oct. 1944, 12. Jahrgang, Folge 10, p.10
http://digi.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/diglit ... c07be35411

The following must be his entry in the database of the German War Graves Commission (http://www.volksbund.de) although the first name is spelled incorrectly:
Helmut Göring ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Noyers-Pont-Maugis (F).
Grablage: Unter den Unbekannten

Nachname: Göring
Vorname: Helmut
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 19.12.1923
Geburtsort: Weißenfels
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 25.08.1944
Todes-/Vermisstenort: bei La Fere

In late August 1944 Luftwaffe slowly increased its presence in France again after being more or less a no-show during the fighting in Normandy. Various fighter units were transferred to airfields in NW France, for example II./Jagdgeschwader 53 were stationed on the La Fère airfield NW of Laon and II./Jagdgeschwader 6 came to Herpy l'Arlésienne NE of Reims. The second unit had converted from twin-engine destroyer planes to single-engine fighters just in July 1944 and didn't have much experience in handling them yet. Helmuth Göring belonged to the HQ section of it.

On the day of Helmuth's death parts of USAAF's 367th Fighter Group dive bombed the large German airfield at Clastres, bout 10 kilometers south of St. Quentin when they were intercepted by fighters from II./Jagdgeschwader 6. With more and more patrols from both sides joining the fray a grand melee ensued that saw 7 P-38 and 17 Focke-Wulfs falling out of the sky, Helmuth's being one of them.

Sources:

http://www.367fightergroup.com/category/blog/
http://www.387bg.com/Stations/Clastres/Clastres.htm
http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20France.pdf
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /JG5-R.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... /JG6-R.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gli ... JG53-R.htm

Best regards
Torsten
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freddiefro
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by freddiefro » 14 Feb 2015 17:48

The first attachment shows information for Göring's sister-in law Ilse Göring (geb. 28.04.1898; NSDAP Nr. 1 476 362). She entered the DRK ("Eintritt in den aktiven Dienst des DRK") on 05.03.1938 (DRK-Landestelle III) and was promoted Feldführerinnen 14.10.1938 (Source: Dienstaltersliste des Deutschen Rotten Kreuzes, Stand 20.04.1939).

Interesting that the Dienstaltersliste des Deutschen Rotten Kreuzes, Stand 01.07.1940 (the second attachment) has her promotion date to DRK-Oberstführerinnen as 01.05.1940, but her date of entry into the DRK ("Eintritt in den aktiven Dienst des DRK") as 01.04.1934 (see below). Unless it was a clerical error, perhaps her date of entry into the DRK was "backed-up" as an honorary thing (after all...she was Göring's sister-in law).

Fred
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Topspeed » 24 Feb 2015 18:29

Isn't Göring a common name in Germany ? I had encountered one frau Göring in lokal Edeka as a cashier while in germany.

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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Topspeed » 24 Feb 2015 18:32

Heimatschuss wrote:
On the day of Helmuth's death parts of USAAF's 367th Fighter Group dive bombed the large German airfield at Clastres, bout 10 kilometers south of St. Quentin when they were intercepted by fighters from II./Jagdgeschwader 6. With more and more patrols from both sides joining the fray a grand melee ensued that saw 7 P-38 and 17 Focke-Wulfs falling out of the sky, Helmuth's being one of them.

Best regards
Torsten
Were they Dora type ?

----

I suspect A-8 models.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fo ... 0_variants

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Heimatschuss
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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Heimatschuss » 24 Feb 2015 19:49

Hello,

one of the surviving German pilots, Feldwebel Fritz Buchholz, mentioned in a post-war interview that the unit received Focke-Wulf 190 A-8.
http://www.387bg.com/Stations/Clastres/Clastres.htm
Topspeed wrote:Isn't Göring a common name in Germany ? I had encountered one frau Göring in lokal Edeka as a cashier while in germany.
Yes, it's a common surname. There are more than 1,300 entries for 'Göring' in the current German telephone book and and another 120 or so for 'Goering'.
http://www.verwandt.de/karten/relativ/g ... 6ring.html
http://www.verwandt.de/karten/relativ/goering.html

Best regards
Torsten

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Re: Ilse Göring

Post by Peter » 11 Jun 2017 18:25

Peter Göring ruht auf der Kriegsgräberstätte in Bourdon.
Endgrablage: Block 32 Reihe 8 Grab 309
Nachname: Göring
Vorname: Peter
Dienstgrad: Leutnant
Geburtsdatum: 14.04.1922
Geburtsort: Weißenfels
Todes-/Vermisstendatum: 13.10.1941
Todes-/Vermisstenort: Hubersent
- 13 Oct 41 Leutnant., with Stab/JG 26 Gefallen - Bf 109 F-4 hit by return fire from a Blenheim light bomber of 139 Sqdn RAF.

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