Sister Pia of Munich

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
thomas
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Post by thomas » 24 Apr 2003 07:45

Dear Stauffenberg

Sorry, i do not want to angry you.

First of all you did not wite the german text. So the whole history of nun or not is not your mistake.

Second I was only a little surprised because a "senior-bitch" is still a bitch, or whore or fungirl or what you want. But she was surely not a bitch there the Chief who ever we call a chief of whorehouse.

I think we two can not solve definitifely if she was a nun or not. But im intrested ver much from where AnDie has this text. I am intrested in a historical correctness. Maybe you have seen in [b]other forums [/b]that the historical correctness was not there.

Greetings

thomas

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Stauffenberg II
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Post by Stauffenberg II » 24 Apr 2003 07:49

You are welcome Thomas.

I myself don´t think that she was a nun, too.

Regards to Basel,
Stauffenberg II

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Stauffenberg II
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Post by Stauffenberg II » 24 Apr 2003 08:06

thomas wrote: I think she worked in a catholic hospital which was led by nuns, but she was a normal nurse. So they have there a similar clothing like nuns. But the most important thing is, how she can get or be a nun with a child.

thomas
I think you will be right. And the name "Schwester Pia" may derive from the habit to give special names to real catholic nuns/monks.

But I am pretty away from my domain and will now go back. Only wanted to be helpful by translating the text.

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Researcher
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Sister Pia's Internment

Post by Researcher » 25 Apr 2003 16:16

Does anyone have any idea which country had her imprisoned 1945 - 1959 and for what crime?
Seems a little severe don't you think?

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Researcher

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Nurse Pia

Post by Researcher » 04 May 2003 19:46

Can't remember the source but I found in my files that Eleonore Bauer known as 'Nurse Pia' was involved with water immersion experiments in Dachau.
She was convicted by a Munich Court in 1949 and sentenced to 10 years imprisonment.
What do you think of that?
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Igor Karpov
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by Igor Karpov » 04 Jan 2009 08:40

Another photo of Sister Pia.
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portico
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by portico » 04 Jan 2009 17:12

Greetings.
I'm finding this thread rather interesting.

My two cents worth on this subject is as follows.

My Aunt Edith became a Nun during the Second World War. As a matter of course, all Nuns of the time were expected to take a new name upon becoming a full fledged Nun, she changed her name to Sister Rita. This could explain the Sister Pia/Eleonore Bauer scenario.

As for her having a child, my Dad knew a man who became a Roman Catholic priest late in life. His wife had died, his children were grown and he wished to devote his life to the Church. Dad said that this priest's duties were "limited" because he had been married. What "limited" meant I never found out or asked about.

This next is all speculation on my part. It could be that Sister Pia was defrocked because of her NSDAP activities but continued to wear the habit. She could have also said to Hell with it and had a child, anyway, even though she was a Nun. It's certainly not unheard of.

In the picture above I see she wears what looks to me to be a Nun's habit. The interesting thing about that is that she wears a Cross, as well.

Would a civilian nurse have worn a cross?

I hope some of this was helpful.8)

Dan
p®ti©

~~~~~

grassi
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by grassi » 04 Jan 2009 18:43

There is a rather long article on wikipedia and on sueddeutsche.de about Schwester Pia (=Eleonore Baur).
According to these articles she got her name “Schwester Pia” while working as a free lance nurse with the Gelbe Kreuz, an organisation of free lance nurses, in Munich before World War I (1909?).
She was married two times.
So it seems that she wasn’t member of a catholic order or a protestant sisterhood.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleonore_Baur
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/578/313485/text/


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Grisu
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by Grisu » 04 Jan 2009 20:10

As there seems to be quite some uncertainty about this woman, here’s some biographical information on Eleonore Baur, or Eleonore Sponseil, also known as "Schwester Pia" (or "Sister Pia"):

Born 7 September 1885 in Bad Aibling, raised by her stepmother in Munich, occasional jobs from the age of 14 onwards (e.g. as maid servant), at the age of 20 she gave birth to a child (out of wedlock), this child was also raised by Eleonore Baur’s stepmother, 1905-1907 education and training as nurse at the Deutsches Hospital (German Hospital) in Cairo and work as nurse, from 1907 onwards work as (private) nurse in Munich, took the name of "Sister Pia", 1909 married the engineer Ludwig Baur (1914 marriage ended, divorce?), during WW I military service as nurse, from 1919 onwards participant in several (political) demonstrations and street brawls (e.g, Oberschlesien and Göppingen), 1920 car accident, same year member of DAP, same year brought to court for anti-Semitic statements, same year convicted for rioting and violation of the public peace, 1923 married a hotel manager by the name of Sponseil (1933 marriage divorced), member of Deutsch-Völkischer Schutz- und Trutzbund, 9 November 1923 participant of Feldherrenhalle march, was awarded the Blutorden (blood order) and the Goldenes Parteiabzeichen (golden party badge), acquainted with the leading men of NSDAP, 1934 Fürsorgeschwester der Waffen-SS in the Reichsleitung, also SS-Fürsorgeschwester in Dachau, from 1934 onwards she employed prisoners of the Dachau concentration camp for housework and gardening, 1937 Ehrenoberin (Honorary Mother) of the NS-Schwesternschaft (NS nurses organization), there is no indication that she was member of a catholic women’s order (indeed this seems quite unlikely to me), by 1940 her house had developed into a subcamp of Dachau with approx. 12-14 (male) prisoners doing e.g. construction work for her, while she apparently treated ‘political’ (i.e., ‘German’) prisoners well, she was an open hater of e.g. Jews and Poles, 1945 imprisoned, 1949 convicted as Hauptschuldige (main culprit) to 10 years of labour camp, 1950 released, from 1955 onwards received state pension, remained devout national socialist, lived in Oberhaching, died 1981 (or 1980?) in Oberhaching.

References:
Wittneben, Karin, „Sponseil, ‚Pia’ Eleonore“, in Horst-Peter Wolff (ed.), Biographisches Lexikon zur Pflegegeschichte. Who was who in nursing history, vol. 2, Munich 2001, p. 206f.

Schalm, Sabine, “München-Schwabing (‘Schwester Pia’)”, in Wolfgang Benz and Barbara Distel (eds.), Der Ort des Terrors. Geschichte der nationalsozialistischen Konzentrationslager, vol. 2, Munich 2005, p. 445-447. cf. also a translated version of this article at the United Stated Holocaust Memorial Museum, Holocaust Encyclopaedia (URL).

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AlifRafikKhan
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

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junebaby
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by junebaby » 08 Sep 2009 15:50

I think I might be able to answer the question a little bit. She might have been a member of a secular institute
in the Catholic church.Which one, I don't know. Some of these communties, like the Schoenstatt Sisters of Mary have members who wear a habit and live in community,and they also have members who donot.
These sisters are in the US, and they wear a pin up by their collar similar to what she's wearing. However, they wear a regular veil with a white band, and you can see some hair. They were founded in the 1900s or 1920s and they have a website with photos of the sisters. It is also possible to be a lay member of the Franciscan, Dominican,Servite, Carmelite, and Benedictine orders. These are men and women who live in the world have regular jobs, but share in the spirituality of the community say certain prayers etc. You can be married or single.St.Elizabeth of Hungary was a member of the Franciscans.
It's possible when she joined which ever group, she took the name Sister Pia as her religious name, similar to what nuns do. And as mentioned before, nurses in Germany and England are called sisters.That's a hangover from the days when most hospitals were run by orders like the Religious Hospitalliers of St.Joseph, Sisters of St.Martha,and other communities. Though there were also mens orders who take care of the sick, like the Alexian Brothers, Ministers of the Sick, Brothers of St.John of God,etc.
My thinking is she belonged to such a group rather than a religious community.
I have relatives in Germany who were nuns at the time period and doubt that the Catholic church would have let them go around like this woman did.

Also apparently she got married several times, which as a lay member of say the franciscans she might be able to do
but not as a nun. Now it is possible she at one time did enter the convent, but never made it past being a postulant or novice. postulants retain their own name. When you become a novice is when you take a religious name.Now she may have made it to novice, but left for whatever reason.She may have decided to call herself Sister Pia because of this experience.Don't know if Pia was a name she chose, or it was given to her.
My late cousin Carlene belonged to the Sisters of Charity of Nazerath,Ky. She took the religious name Sister John Edna, in honor of her parents, and of course their patron saints. My great aunt Eva's religious name was Sister Mary Generose, in honor of an early church maryter.She's buried at the School Sisters of Notre Dame cemetery in Elm Grove,Wisconsin.

Each community does things differently in regards to names, training etc.Wonder if there are any biographies on her in German.

freddiefro
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by freddiefro » 15 Mar 2015 14:36

Here are 2 photos of Schwester Pia. I post the first one because it is the same photo as AlifRafikKhan posted above, but notice the crucifix is different…it's seems like the previously posted photo (above) was altered to make it look more like a cross and less like a crucifix. The second photo below is her marching in the 1935 annual march honoring the 1923 "Putsch." (Source: NARA)

Fred
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Helge
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by Helge » 15 Mar 2015 17:50

Sister Pia post war
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Sota ei päätä kuka on oikeassa, vain sen että kuka on jäljellä.
War does not decide who is right but only those who are left.

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Makarov
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by Makarov » 26 May 2022 20:26

Does anyone know if the house she was given by Hitler in Oberhaching still exist?

VanillaNuns
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Re: Sister Pia of Munich

Post by VanillaNuns » 27 May 2022 03:02

If you ignore the rather sensationalist title, this video by the historian Mark Felton is an interesting watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=sBqztosCVmg

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