Would a women ever hold a high rank in the Reich?

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
G-man
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Would a women ever hold a high rank in the Reich?

Post by G-man » 30 Oct 2003 00:08

If Germany had won the war, do you think equality would ever set in?

Say in the 60's or 70's would females have finally been allowed high ranking positions?

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 30 Oct 2003 08:56

Not as long as Hitler was alive - he firmly believed that a woman's place was in the home.

maltesefalcon
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Post by maltesefalcon » 30 Oct 2003 16:26

I agree "Kinder, Kuche, Kirche" was the operative phrase of the day.

He was most reluctant to even mobilize women for factory work. He felt that it would detract from their main duty of raising new soldiers for the Reich.

It also would give the Allies the impression that Germany was desperate to meet her manufacturing needs.

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Germania
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Post by Germania » 30 Oct 2003 16:31

I think BDM has some high ranked female leaders!

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KnightMove
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Post by KnightMove » 02 Nov 2003 00:15

maltesefalcon wrote:I agree "Kinder, Kuche, Kirche" was the operative phrase of the day.

He was most reluctant to even mobilize women for factory work. He felt that it would detract from their main duty of raising new soldiers for the Reich.

It also would give the Allies the impression that Germany was desperate to meet her manufacturing needs.
KIRCHE definitely not, the nazis made some tactical peace with the churches, but hated the Christian religion. And it was not that strict as you describe, women were also used as auxiliary flak personnel.

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Tim Smith
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Post by Tim Smith » 03 Nov 2003 18:40

Yeah but that was in wartime. Once Germany had won and been at peace, all the women would be demobilised from the forces and the factories and sent home.

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Yevgeniy B.
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answer

Post by Yevgeniy B. » 05 Nov 2003 21:33

Most of Women to produce MasterRace Aryan Children, but eventually in the end of the war, some of them got ranks

Yevg

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Panther
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Post by Panther » 12 Nov 2003 13:47

I belive the womans place was at home. (Acording to Hitler) That's why they probably shouldn't be able to get hold of an high rank. Maybe high ranks, but THE high ranks. Responsible of a field hospital, perhaps. But not minister or anything really high.

/Regards Panther

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Germania
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Re: answer

Post by Germania » 12 Nov 2003 16:43

Yevg wrote:Most of Women to produce MasterRace Aryan Children, but eventually in the end of the war, some of them got ranks

Yevg
This is one of the dumpest comments and I heard ever and ever again. What is wrong in getting childrfen? In this time okay it has the background of having soldiers later but what happens when an culture has to less children you can actually see in the modern world like europe, US and so one problems with pension, less workers, etc. But the comment produce Aryan Children is an pre war propaganda slogan nothing more!

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mty
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Post by mty » 13 Nov 2003 23:18

Were women only allowed to join the SS as "Aufseherins" or were also higher ranks open to them? I have never heard of any female SS / Wehrmacht senior officer, the only well known exception being Luftwaffe pilot Hanna Reitsch.

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Germania
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Post by Germania » 14 Nov 2003 20:06

I think the point of view of this topic is not right because that women not reach an high rank in the german military apparat is the thing that the point of view on women was another in this time. Nobody would bring them to the front or let them fight against the enemie! Thats the reason that no women has an high rank in the apparat!

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taivaansusi
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Post by taivaansusi » 15 Nov 2003 23:02

maltesefalcon wrote:I agree "Kinder, Kuche, Kirche" was the operative phrase of the day.

He was most reluctant to even mobilize women for factory work. He felt that it would detract from their main duty of raising new soldiers for the Reich.
Not entirely correct. Kinder, Kuche, Kirche was traditional conservative slogan and not very national-socialistic at all. Christianity was tolerated - not liquidated, like in Soviet Union - but Germans were encouraged to turn their religious feelings to the Thousand-Year Reich cult and the "national creed". Many members of the intelligentsia embraced neo-Paganism. (There were also many Buddhists in the Nazi Party).

Raising (white, healthy) children were of course patronized, but working was not limited to home, like western propaganda liked to tell. Quite the contrary. Germany was leading nation here:

Proportion of Women in the Total Native Civilian Workforce: (%)
Date Germany Britain USA
1940 41.4 % 29.8 % 25.8 %
1941 42.6 % 32.2 % 26.6 %
1942 46.0 % 36.1 % * 28.8 %
1943 48.8 % 37.7 % * 34.2 %
1944 51.0 % 37.9 % * 35.2 %
(* includes women working part-time)

Source: Penguin Historical Atlas of the Third Reich

Proportion of women in the workforce was higher than in any other western country, even in 1939, before the war. Women were also allowed to join the auxiliary military forces, like FlaK battalions.

Hitler was not exclusively reclutant to mobilize women for factory work, but he was reclutant to mobilize his people at a whole. Total mobilization of all resources was started by Speer and only in 1944, not 1939 as it should have been done.

I don't see any reason why women could not hold a ranks in post-war, German-oriented New Europe.

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Post by rappcom » 24 Oct 2004 18:49

Hitler was very reluctant to utilize women in industry, however as of late 1941 early 42`, as the war started turning tides, Himmler had a hard sell to Hitler that women would be needed to support the national effort in hopes of victory. Before this time, limited numbers of women were accepted as Aufseherins on a volunteer basis, however at this point in the war, the Reich began to conscript women as Aufseherins. By 1943 Aufseherins were told "serving guard in the concentration camps is physically effortless, however if you still choose to be difficult in accepting this appointment, then you yourself will become one of the guarded instead of being the one to guard over others". All racially acceptable women between ages 17 and 45 were elligable for conscription as Aufseherins, and not all, but most were of poor uneducated backgrounds.
Many of these Aufseherins were previously recruited in factory jobs, hospital etc, but as concentration camps kept being built and enlarged all over Europe, a major shortage of guards became obvious. Therefore, Aufseherin duty was the most dreaded by alot of these women mainly due to the harsh conditions of sickness and disease in the camps. However a major plus was that pay for Aufseherins over factory workers was much higher. Women drafted into service were classified as SS-Kriegshelferinnen, they were auxilliaries. These women were not incorporated into the SS-Helferinnenkorps, which was the coprp of SS assistants. Women were also recruited into Police Protective Services, Juevenile camp matrons and into thr SS internal affairs department as workers.

There were women who did attain high rank for their respective classification. Johanna Langefeld held the highest level of ranking in the womens guard force at Auschwitz. She was Oberaufseherin there until wars end. This position was considered to be equal to that of a male military officer. Other camps besides Auschwitz had their ranking Oberaufseherins as well. As well as the normal individual lower ranks below them.

Also, there were many other positions of minor and higher rank for women in the Reich that existed as well in numerous other areas and venues.There were less than a handfull of women who made high rankings by, (and before) wars end. When I say high rankings, I mean "high" for the consideration that they were women. From a male ranking standpoint, it was sub-level to them of course.

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Lkefct
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Post by Lkefct » 25 Oct 2004 16:24

Just curious, but how many women had the oppunrtunity to gain high rank in any allied country? I am not sure at the poin tin question if those attitudes where unique to germany.

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Post by Doggowitz » 25 Oct 2004 16:40

Well the best chances to make a Military Career was without a doubt the Soviet-Union. It was also the only Country with Women in Combat Units.
Very Progressive for that time IMO.

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