The Lebensborn Program. You tell me.

[Lebensborn]

The Lebensborn Program is an interesting topic that seems to be omitted from student textbooks.

I am a student in Australia who is researching the Lebensborn project. I would love to hear any information you can give me either academic or personal opinion.

I want to know why there is a lack of publications about the Lebensborn program in comparison to other topics of the time?
I would also like to know why some historians omit the Lebensborn program from their histories?
What is your own personal opinion on the Lebensborn program? Is this an emotional, scientific or 'logical' response that you have?
What are some consquences from the Lebensborn program on those involved and those not involved?
Any other comments that you would like to make please post them.
Anything would be appreciated.

Thankyou for time

[Ken Jasper]

In 1983, I had a good friend in Vienna, Austria who was a knock-out beauty in her youth. While attending a BDM camp one summer, the girls were called to formation and reviewed by three senior SS officers. My friend was subquently called to the camp headquarters where she was told that she was selected to be part of an important program for Germany and that it would be a great honor to participate. When the details of the Lebensborn were explained to her, she flatly refused the offer. For the rest of the encampment she was given the dirtiest jobs in camp and when she returned home, she was dismissed from the BDM and branded as a political risk. This affected her for the rest of the war as she was unable to study at the university and the only job she was able to obtain was working in a relative's clothing shop. She was required to report to the local Blockleiter weekly. She never regretted turning down the offer.

[Dan W.]

Awesome story Ken. I'm glad she lived with self-respect for the rest of her life. Hopefully she did not have to suffer any abuse at the hands of the Red Army rapists.

[Scott Smith]

She never regretted turning down the offer.

Not to be disrespectful but these kinds of stories should be taken with a maximum dose of salt.

[Mike R]

There is a little book I came across a while back detailing Germany's plans for England after its conquest. A large portion of this book was about the camps that were to be built for this program. I don't remember the title or author, but I will look for it when I go home in 2 weeks. I also don't know how accurate this book is. I do remember that it was written by an Englishman immediately after WWII, around 1946, so I believe it may be 'tainted' with a large amount of anti-Nazi propaganda.

[Ken Jasper]

Scott,

The story is accurate, she had no reason to lie or embelish with me.You weren't there so you really have no base of reference. My profession enabled me to live and work in Austria and Germany so I had the opportunity to hear "war" stories from those who lived them. Cynicism is a dangerous thing.

Dan, she married a US Army Officer who was with the occupation troops. She moved to the US where she had two sons. When her husband died in 1975, she moved back to Austria where she worked as a translator with UNIDO (United Nations Industrial Development Organization) where I met her. I interviewed a number of elderly Austrians about wartime experiences with the intention of writing a book which I may still do one day.

[Scott Smith]

Scott,

The story is accurate, she had no reason to lie or embelish with me.You weren't there so you really have no base of reference. My profession enabled me to live and work in Austria and Germany so I had the opportunity to hear "war" stories from those who lived them. Cynicism is a dangerous thing.

Well, it's not that I question that the offer was made to produce children for the State but the coloring of the story with the "reprisals" for refusing. Medicocre adolescent peer-pressure or whatever situations thus become jackbooted Gestapo tactics and so on.

There is every reason that such a Lebensborn program would "bomb" anyway in Catholic Austria where sacraments mean everything and are issued not by the State but by the Pope. However, a pronatalist program sanctioned by the Pope would thus be sanctioned by God. Would she refuse then? Not likely and it wouldn't even be an issue to write a memoir about, just a way-of-life and morality that is seen as normal.

Anyway, all historical sources have to be weighed according to how humans color memory. Any historiographical textbook will demonstrate that. One doesn't have to be a fantasy-prone-personality or a liar or need any motive whatever to embellish. We remember what is "memorable" and what is deemed valuable in cultural context.

That this lady married an American G.I. tells much because in cultural context Americans were far more likely to believe weird stuff about the Germans in WWII than the Germans themselves who lived through those times.

My grandmother worked in a garment factory after the war and there was a blond German girl working there also who was an orphaned refugee. The other girls teased her about being used to breed blond SS-supertroopers, which made the girl cry. My grandmother thought the Nazi stud-farm story must be true because the girl cried. I asked her if she would cry too if teased by foreigners in a strange country about being a whore...

Best Regards,
Scott

[rkoy]

there is a documentary film in VHS format i have it at home i was informative and well made.maybe you could look in the library or video store for it...rodney

[Scott Smith]

there is a documentary film in VHS format i have it at home i was informative and well made.maybe you could look in the library or video store for it...rodney

What is your point? I've seen lots of jaundiced crap on the History Channel and so on.

[rkoy]

i wasnt refering ANYTHING to you,but to the original poster of the thread. they asked for info and help......................if i need your help or opinion i will pull your string!

[Scott Smith]

i wasnt refering ANYTHING to you,but to the original poster of the thread. they asked for info and help......................if i need your help or opinion i will pull your string!

A bit testy aren't we? Some help, you did not even refer to a title to look for at the library or videostore, hence my confusion. Perhaps if you did, it could be discussed. That's what I mean--the original poster has likely already seen these propaganda films and hence the confusion, hence the questions.

[Roberto]

Scott,

The story is accurate, she had no reason to lie or embelish with me.You weren't there so you really have no base of reference. My profession enabled me to live and work in Austria and Germany so I had the opportunity to hear "war" stories from those who lived them. Cynicism is a dangerous thing.

Ken,

You have just met a fanatical supporter of National Socialism who will consider any account that doesn't fit into his ideological bubble to have at least been "embellished". There's no need to take this fellow seriously.

Cheers,

Roberto

[Roberto]

[Scott Smith]

You have just met a fanatical supporter of National Socialism who will consider any account that doesn't fit into his ideological bubble to have at least been "embellished". There's no need to take this fellow seriously.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/ ... er/ds4.jpg

Roberto, you have me in stitches. No, just a critic of "morality" and atrocity-propaganda.

Although you have posted a good example of pronatalist propaganda--now, perhaps a historical or national comparison would be interesting, most of which is certainly not anti-Catholic or pro-Nazi, nor supported by me.

[Ovidius]

You have just met a fanatical supporter of National Socialism who will consider any account that doesn't fit into his ideological bubble to have at least been "embellished". There's no need to take this fellow seriously.

While a certain Mr. R...... around consider any account that doesn't fit in his own bubble(this including, but not limited to, charges of cruelty and aggresiveness for the Soviets, charges of subversive actions for the Jews, charges of underground actions for the Brits) to have been at least "embellished", if not outrightly hollow bunk and empty slander which is strictly for the birds as usual.

The same friend of us thinks that an occupation of Eastern Europe by Communists, or even a victory of the Communists in German elections(they were #2 in the top of numbers of votes earned) followed by the Communization of Germany & Europe was less horrible than the hypothesis of a German victory over the USSR. Because, "what the heck, under Communism they were still alive, while Hitler was going to kill 100 million Slavs".

And last but not least, the same friend of us is ready to believe any account that will portray his favorites "Nazi" betes noires as not only cruel & brutal, but also sexually pervert(charges of homosexual activities for Hans Frank, Rudolf Hess & Co.), maniacally sadistic and hysteric(Hitler), or cold-blooded murderous robots(Amon Goeth).

A little bit of info for you, my dear Mr. R......:

Use of past actions recorded in one person's file to persecute that person over years was a Communist practice, perpetrated in peacetime, when the existence of an oversized terror machine had to be justified by spreading even more terror. I doubt that in Germany during wartime there were secret-service men who wasted precious time & energy to watch over a girl or another for this kind of things. Maybe they threatened her(even with violence), even beaten her, but I strongly doubt they put into action a vast network of officials to stop her from pursuing academic studies.

And I doubt this not only because of "wishful thinking", but because if the terror network worked at such tiny levels, the existence of subversive groups within Germany had to be impossible. And those groups existed, "worked" and so on, as the same friend of us has endlessly told how "heroic" they were.

~Ovidius