Female Auxiliary Photographs

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
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Matt Gibbs
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wermachtsgefolge pins

Post by Matt Gibbs » 03 Apr 2007 20:04

With regards to Torstens pic of the Oct 44 Aux. with the unusual badge. Isn't this the civilian administrators badge for 25 yrs service, which is theoretically possible for a civilian worker to wear who later goes into uniform? The normal Wehrmachtsgefolge pin is different in shape to this with an eagles head facing left and no wings; maybe my memory is failing me.
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album photo2

Post by Matt Gibbs » 03 Apr 2007 20:54

Hello there
Another photo from my album. She is wearing the Blitz pin with a sliver border. I don't recall seeing one of these pins illustrated in the thread on badges that was in the awards section before the "move" Vikki, can you remember? Incidentally is it also common to see the coloured colla lace on the jacket and also the shirt? Note in the picture she appears to have it also on the shirt collar...
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 03 Apr 2007 21:03

Another photo showing the same nco with a group of her colleagues. From the dates and locations in the album there appears to be about a year or 18 months between these photos.
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Inspection photo 2

Post by Matt Gibbs » 03 Apr 2007 21:40

Hello
Another photo of the white female summer uniforms as higher ranking officers turn up to inspect these womens quarters in August 1943.
I especially like the white womens shoes on view, the flowers given to the woman on the right and the detail of the mans white luftwaffe [?] summer uniform.
There are a lot of photos taken in this year of hot summer sunshine including some of when a group of them are on leave on the beach in the med sun and visiting the Acropolis. I will scan some more if they are of interest???
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Re: album photo2

Post by Vikki » 05 Apr 2007 02:19

Matt Gibbs wrote:Hello there
Another photo from my album. She is wearing the Blitz pin with a sliver border. I don't recall seeing one of these pins illustrated in the thread on badges that was in the awards section before the "move" Vikki, can you remember? Incidentally is it also common to see the coloured colla lace on the jacket and also the shirt? Note in the picture she appears to have it also on the shirt collar...
Matt,

No, I don't recall seeing one of the Leaders' brooches posted, though you may find one posted in one of the photos on this thread.

The decorated border on the service pins worn by Unterführerin rank and above is actually gold. :wink:

As for the piping on her jacket and blouse collars, the regulations (Heeresverordnungsblatt 42B, No. 265) for Führerin and above called for it to be worn on the collars of the blouse, jacket, overcoat, worksmock, and around the blitz patches on them, as well as on the turnback of the cap and around the blitz patch on the cap. It may seem unusual to see it on both blouse and tunic collar because it's not common to see photos of women of that rank: from the single pip inside the collar chevron, she's an Oberführerin (the rough male equivalent would be Oberleutnant, or [American, and British as well, I believe] First Lieutenant). I can't see the piping clearly, but to match the Oberführerin rank on her collar it should be three-color (yellow/silver/black) rather than two-color (yellow/black) as for a Führerin?

FANTASTIC photos--all of them!--Matt!!!

Best,
~Vikki

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Post by Matt Gibbs » 05 Apr 2007 09:07

Vikki
Thanks, that makes sense because with a magnifier the lace looks like it is woven around with 3 strands, hard to tell, but your indication of her rank would point to this. I was wondering why I hadn't seen so many photos of female officers. With this unit, there is another female officer, I shall have to scan her photo as well ;)
Still working hard figuring out picture sizing with the new scanner hehe.
Whoops, almost forgot to add, this unit is Nachr.Betr.Kp.S [Nachrichten Betriebskompanie S.] going from the Feldpost number on the documents. Thanks to Erik E on the feldpost section for this info, we're not sure about that "S", but normally its for "Schwere" (Heavy). They were posted all over the place, photo captions range from Athens, Rugen, Berlin, Belgrade, Novigrad, some photos from January 1943 show them being attached to or at least transported by. a Kriegsmarine unit with KM officers, vehicles etc. This unit was renamed in 1941, prior to this time it was known as Telephone Operating Company 908. Not sure where it would have been then. I believe the name change must reflect a change to a more general designation for their work, I think it translates as Signals Operating Company S. Still want to find more about them!
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Re: wermachtsgefolge pins

Post by Vikki » 07 Apr 2007 05:13

Matt Gibbs wrote:With regards to Torstens pic of the Oct 44 Aux. with the unusual badge. Isn't this the civilian administrators badge for 25 yrs service, which is theoretically possible for a civilian worker to wear who later goes into uniform? The normal Wehrmachtsgefolge pin is different in shape to this with an eagles head facing left and no wings; maybe my memory is failing me.
ttfn
Matt,

Any misnaming of the pin is mine, and not Torsten's, since he was quoting me.

And in fact, you're right, I more properly should have called it a "Civil Administrator's" pin. I have a couple of them, and I've asked knowledgeable (and not-so knowledgeable, on the off-chance) dealers and longtime collectors about the pin on the left of your photo. And they've all called it a "Wehrmachtgefolge" pin---though they, and I and you, certainly know the difference from the standard WG (eagle-head) pins and stickpins. Their meaning was that it was, just as you've said, an insignium for a civilian worker in the employ of the Wehrmacht, which might be worn on the uniform if the person later went into military service. A couple of them have said that the true "WG" (eagle-headed) pin was for "merchants" who provided supplies and services to the Wehrmacht, while the smaller, more oval pin was for true civil servants, who worked on the staff of the armed forces. Several of them, in describing the staff/clerical function of the males and females who received it, have also noted a parallel in its stylistic closeness to the "Luftwaffe Civil Administration" pin, shown here:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=67912
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... hp?t=81208


But I've always been at a loss to explain why there would be separate Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht Administration pins, when the Luftwaffe was part of the Wehrmacht. (One of my collector mentors answered this question with, "Well, you know the Luftwaffe.....they did their own thing." :wink: ) It also could not have been a "25-year" service pin, even with multiplied (doubled) wartime service, for the young woman in Torsten's photo, or for many of the other young women I've seen photos of wearing it.

Very best,
~Vikki

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Post by Matt Gibbs » 07 Apr 2007 19:17

Hey!
Thanks Vikki that clears up my slightly foggy memory somewhat now. I used to have a small booklet on these badges written in german with some great photos, need to get another copy I think.
What you say is of course perfectly correct, and also indeed the Luftwaffe did their own thing with regards these. DanCz who may look in on the thread has the book I had, I bought 2, and he took the other one, so maybe he can comment on these more when he sees this.
What I am clear on now is that the pin on the left in my photo was also done in GILT finish, and this is the 25 year award version, not the silver as I had previoucly got mixed up with! Thanks for helping jog my memory.
Mine has no maker marks anywhere but seems really well made for a simple little pin.
Off to a re-enacting event tomorrow but will scan a few more pics after the weekend
Regards
Matt Gibbs

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Post by sylvieK4 » 27 Apr 2007 22:17

Two more Luft Hilf photos:

Image

Image
(source: online auction)

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Post by ancasta » 08 May 2007 16:59

Deleted repeat post..
Last edited by ancasta on 08 May 2007 17:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by ancasta » 08 May 2007 17:05

This is for Matt. Worn by the higher ranks. The Marinehelferin's higher ranks had the same border - I have posted both for comparison.
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Post by Vikki » 14 May 2007 16:33

sylvieK4 and ancasta,

Great photos!

Best,
~Vikki

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Post by Vikki » 14 May 2007 16:51

Photos of Kriegsmarine Helferinnen are relatively scarce. Here are a cover and article dedicated on them in a 1944 issue of Kriegsmarine magazine:
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Post by ancasta » 14 May 2007 18:00

Yes its true, Marinehelferin are sadly lacking in the photo stakes. Here's one rare photo sent to me by a collector. Note her cuff title is the late war Rayon version with no yellow borders. The cuffband in the photo is in my possession. The owner believed that the photo was taken in autumn 1944, but wasnt sure.

Do you notice that two of the ladies are wearing Kriegmarine pants, but the photo isnt clear enough to see if they are male or female (styled) ones.
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Post by Matt Gibbs » 19 May 2007 11:36

Ancasta
Superb photos and badges! Love the higher ranking womens blitz brooch Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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