Eva Braun or Eva Hitler?

[HaEn]

Can anybody imagine Nazis greeting each other with "Heil Schickelgrüber ?" just a thought. HN.

[Dan]

Not quite an alliteration

Michael Mills has shown that Hitler is usually a Jewish name, the "Hitl" (sp?) being a type of cap, and the suffix denoting one who makes them. There was a David Hitler who moved to Israel after the war, and he must have been a man of great family pride as he didn't change his name.

[Scott Smith]

Can anybody imagine Nazis greeting each other with "Heil Schickelgrüber ?" just a thought. HN.

Well Stalin's name was Iosif Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili. So he changed it to Man of Steel.

And Lenin's name was Vladimir Ilich Ulyanov. He changed it too.

Maybe we should have a forum contest as to what Adolfus Hitler should have changed his name to if he had been born Schicklgruber...

[Siegfried Wilhelm]

On the original subject of Eva's name in history. I'm going to be incredibly crass and I beg your forgivness, but in most societies the marraige is not official or binding until it has been consumated. As a matter of fact in many places non-consumation is legal grounds for uncontested anullment. I often have wondered in idle moments if the Hitlers had much opportunity to consumate their marraige after the ceremony. I know it's possible, there was just enough time alone, but did they?
Therein is the crux--was she married or not.....
Ceremony yes, but in fact??

[Geli]

He certainly wasn't in the best of health, and was under a LOT of stress. It's true der klein Fuehrer just may not have been able to salute.
On the other hand, there's something else that sort of kicks in at times of trouble, that "It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine" mentality. I've heard that the SS men were having orgies just upstairs, and who knows? Perhaps Adolf and Eva did go out with a bang.

I don't think it matters, though. The relationship was consumated plenty before the wedding certificate was signed. Perhaps we should be looking at what constitutes a common-law marriage instead.

[Eva]

Geli has a point. AH and EB had been living as man and wife for more than a decade, people in the innermost circle treated Eva as though she were Frau Hitler for some time (at least in His presence, He demanded as much). And they had 'consummating' every chance they got since 1932- I think the probable lack of nookie on their wedding night, or the night after that, shouldn't matter much. As far as their relationship was concerned, they'd been married for years- the paper signed on 28/29 April of 1945 was a symbolic gesture.

EB

[Dan]

True. Marriage isn't consumated by sex anyway. It's an oath, a contract. Whether or not they had sex afterwards is totally irrelevant.

[Beate]

I think it is totally irrelevant if she became Mrs Hitler by name or not, it is far more important to find out if she had any influence on history as such! As far as I know the only thing she did was to improve the working conditions of hairdressers.
Regards Beate

[Scott Smith]

I think it is totally irrelevant if she became Mrs Hitler by name or not, it is far more important to find out if she had any influence on history as such! As far as I know the only thing she did was to improve the working conditions of hairdressers.
Regards Beate

That's a good question and it is hard to say the answer. Heinrich Hoffmann thinks that had Geli Raubal lived and Hitler married her, she would have had a positive influence on him and thus Germany, assuming that Adolf still would have had the drive to become the Führer in the first place--and assuming, I suppose, that the marriage worked out and she didn't shoot herself in a fit of despair anyway. Hitler's major problem, at least in the later years, was that he lacked patience as a statesman, the very trait that a wife and family could have given him, but perhaps negating a ruthlessness that had gotten him to the top when all others had failed. There is no guarantee that anyone besides Hitler would have been better for Germany or for History.

[Eva]

Where did you hear that Hoffmann had said that? I'm just curious because Hoffmann was trying to set AH up with his own daughter and EB BEFORE and DURING the time Geli was living with AH in Munich. I think it's pretty cool if Hoffmann said such a thing, and I want to know what your source was on that.

EB

[Scott Smith]

i need help on my research paper for school. I need to prove that if Hitler wouldnt have invaded Russia in the Winter, and didnt have a two-front war going, he would have won the war....send me a message or email me at [email protected]

He didn't invade Russia in winter; it was June 22, 1941, but winter set-in before the Germans could complete operations for the year. Hitler had wanted to invade on the first of May but that was not possible because the ground had not dried sufficiently for an invasion and the German Army had gotten delayed securing the Balkans earlier in the year. Most authors claim that had Hitler taken Moscow instead of encircling Kiev that the Germans would have won the campaign. However, this is by no means certain. Here are some excellent articles by Gary Komar, who sometimes contributes to the forum:

CLICK! Suicide of a Nation - Germany's Ride to Destruction: Russia 1941, by Gary Komar.

CLICK! Generaloberst Franz Halder, Chief of the General Staff - Patriot or Traitor?, by Gary Komar.

CLICK! Operation Barbarossa - The Case Against Moscow, by Gary Komar.

CLICK! Göring's Luftwaffe - A Broken Dream, by Gary Komar.

CLICK! DISCUSSION: Gary Komar's article, "The Case against Moscow."

Hope this helps!


I also copied this answer to the more-appropriate thread:

CLICK! Help With Information...

[Scott Smith]

Where did you hear that Hoffmann had said that? I'm just curious because Hoffmann was trying to set AH up with his own daughter and EB BEFORE and DURING the time Geli was living with AH in Munich. I think it's pretty cool if Hoffmann said such a thing, and I want to know what your source was on that.

No problem, Eva. It was in Hitler Was My Friend, by Heinrich Hoffmann; London (1955). Give me a minute and I'll lookup the page.


This is from pages 158-159:

We drove straight through to the Central Cemetery. Here Hitler went alone to the grave, where he found Schwarz and Schaub, his personal A.D.C., awaiting him. In half an hour he was back and gave the order to drive on to Obersalzberg.

Scarcely had he got into the car, than he began to talk. His eyes glazed through the windscreen, and he seemed to be thinking aloud. "So," he said. "Now let the struggle begin--the struggle which must and shall be crowned with success." We all felt a tremendous and blessed relief.

Two days later, he was speaking in Hamburg, and thereafter he rushed furiously from city to city, from meeting to meeting. His speeches were fascinating and compelling as never before, and an almost superhuman power of persuasion seemed to emanate from him the moment he mounted the platform. To me it seemed as though he were seeking in the turmoil of political meetings an anodyne for the frightful pain in his heart.

If there was anyone whom he ardently desired to marry, it was his niece, Geli. His love for this beautiful and intelligent girl was as great as the political urge that possessed him; and while she would not have hindered the vast work of internal regeneration which he most certainly accomplished, it is quite possible that in the ties of home and family, in the contentment of domestic bliss by which he laid such store, coupled with Geli's restraining influence, he would have lost his zest for those international adventures which brought him to his ruin.

Round no woman in modern times has sensation hovered more eagerly than round Hitler's mistress and later wife, Eva Braun. Only a few people were aware of her existence, and those few kept silent.

My wife and I know perhaps more than anyone else of the inside story of Hitler and Eva Braun, and let me say at once that those who turn to this chapter in eager anticipation of a love-story will be sadly disappointed. Hitler himself was personally very modest and an intensely shy person, and as far as we ourselves knew or noticed, there never was any love story.

[Emphasis added.]

[KRO]

This question of either Geli or Eva,to whom did Adolfs heart belong?Those close to him have stated that Adolfs greatest affection was for his mother and with this I cannot and will not disagree.After Gelis death Adolf had her room closed off and preserved as it was and never again entered it,and meditation on this odd fact can produce a great many speculations.There has been various propositions put forth among which is the one that Adolf was advised that measures had to be taken to end and cover up his relationship with his niece in order to avoid scandal when he makes his bid for political power.What I find odd(or suspicious)in Adolfs private life is that Geli was to have told Otto Strasser(brother to Gregor and political enemy of Hitler within the Party itself)how uncle Wolf had made her take part in perverse sexual behavior ... and BAMMMM ... shes dead from a gunshot wound inflicted by Adolfs own revolver.Then theres Renate Muller the actress who,after an evening with Der Fuhrer,tells her director how Adolf had laid down and had her to kick and abuse him while he got excited and masturbated ... and swoooosh ... CRUNCH ... she falls 40 feet from her Berlin apartment window to her death.As Sherlock might say,"My dear Watson,these are strange happenings I must admit,and now ... the game is afoot".As for the idea that Adolf somehow carried a greater torch for Geli than for Eva ... I will point out what appears as the defining evidence ... Adolf began his affair with Eva while Geli was still in the picture ... moreover,Eva willingly commited suicide while its quite possible Geli did not ... respectfully ... K.B.

[Scott Smith]

As for the idea that Adolf somehow carried a greater torch for Geli than for Eva ... I will point out what appears as the defining evidence ... Adolf began his affair with Eva while Geli was still in the picture ... moreover, Eva willingly commited suicide while its quite possible Geli did not ... respectfully ... K.B.

Hoffmann said that that Hitler told him he would like to marry Geli but wouldn't as he had duties to perform for Germany, but Onkel Adolf was definitely controlling Geli's life as the proverbial knight, and nobody was quite good enough for her.

As far as Eva, she eventually had to attempt suicide herself to get Hitler to bond with her.

[Eva]

As far as Eva, she eventually had to attempt suicide herself to get Hitler to bond with her

You went there. I was hoping this thread wouldn't go there, but now it has, so I am forced to respond and stick up for my namesake.

Eva's two failed suicides (1932 and 1935) were not contrived as a means by which to secure AH's affection. She was sincerely trying to end her own life; even her doctors said so. As for its effect on their relationship- yeah, okay, I'll give you that: He DID become more attentive after each (particularly 1935- she got a house out of it). And yes, he was the indirect cause of her suicide attempts... she was very much in love with him almost from their first meeting and he was much more concerned with taking over the world than paying attention to his girlfriend.

It is almost certain that her love for him far surpassed his love for her for at least the first half of the relationship. By the time the war started, though, he was in love with her. He was, however, a very private man, and very private about his private life. Geli may have been murdered, and he may well have suspected as much. If Geli had been murdered to keep his mind on politics, he certainly wouldn't make the mistake of being openly in love again for fear that history could repeat itself.

He certainly was in love with Geli- passionately so. It seems like every recorded moment with Geli was heated with passion or lust or anger or jealousy. With Eva it was just the opposite: she never allowed his feathers to be ruffled. Eva was just the respite he needed in the midst of the madness that was his life, and by the end of his life he truly loved her for it.

EBH