Women in combat roles

Discussions on the role played by and situation of women in the Third Reich not covered in the other sections. Hosted by Vikki.
Ezboard

Women in combat roles

Post by Ezboard » 30 Sep 2002 17:56

maulkin1
Member
Posts: 25
(10/31/01 4:29:46 am)
Reply Women in combat roles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I checked in the archives and found a question about "Women in the third reich", women's social history, but not about women's combat roles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Luftwaffe used women as pilots (one recieved a Knight's Cross, if I'm not mistaken). The Wehrmarcht in general seemed to have used them for radio work, but I don't know how close to the front they were allowed.

I have a book that also shows the Waffen-SS foreign volunteers also had women called "Lottas" (Walther "The Waffen-SS" pg 153). I'd like more details on that.

Of course, there were nurses, too. And partisans in '45, I'd guess.

If anybody else has any suggestions, books, websites, please post.

Thank you,
maulkin

Dan F
Visitor
(10/31/01 5:16:22 am)
Reply Women
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Women were, as you have most likely already found out....limited in they're roles in the military. I believe the chick whom got the Knights Cross was Hanna Reicsh or something like that. She was brave enough to fly into Berlin in the closing days of the war.
I have seen a propaganda post of the Luftwaffe with a woman on it. Wow eh?

Neways.....this proably didn't help much so i'll leave now.

orion47
Veteran Member
Posts: 203
(10/31/01 5:37:15 am)
Reply Re: Women in combat roles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hanna Reitsch received the Iron Cross First Class for her work as a test pilot (as far as I know, she never actively participated in combat, although she did manage to fly a Fieseler Storch into beleaguered Berlin, braving Flak and Soviet aircraft). No woman received any of the higher awards (German Cross or Knight's Cross). A number of them received the Iron Cross Second Class as nurses, however; among these were:

Norwegian nursing sister Anne Gunhild Moxanes who served with the "Wiking" Division in Russia; she was also a holder of the Norwegian Front Line Soldier's badge instituted by Quisling in Oct. 1943;

and

Magda Darchinger (Red Cross Sister; also a holder of the Eastern Front Medal [Medaille "Winterschlacht im Osten 1941/42"]).

4 Red Cross nurses assigned to the Afrikakorps received the Iron Cross Second Class; these were:

Grete Fock (of Mutterhaus Kiel)
Ilse Schulz (of Mutterhaus Kiel)
Hanny Weber (of Mutterhaus München)
Geolinde Münch (of Mutterhaus München)

There were probably many others, particularly among those who served as Luftwaffe Flak helpers; multitudes of women were decorated with the War Merit Cross First and Second Class (with an without swords).

Best wishes,
~ Mike Miller
Axis Biographical Research

ziggy wiseman
Member
Posts: 35
(10/31/01 6:13:30 pm)
Reply Re: Women
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Dan,:"the chick whom got the Knight Cross....."

C'mon,we are in year 2001!

She was a hell of a lady,don't you think ,macho boy?

User
Visitor
(10/31/01 7:39:46 pm)
Reply Dan F
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our Dan F's finest comment was the last sentence of his post above

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 770
(10/31/01 7:44:50 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Dan F
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"User",

And your comments about him are of course of great value?

/Marcus

User
Visitor
(10/31/01 8:12:37 pm)
Reply re Dan F
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My comments are meant to encourage our young freind to frame his questions and comments in a conventional fashion,with a minimum of slang or needless exclamations.I apologize to you,Marcus.It will not happen again.

maulkin1
Member
Posts: 26
(11/2/01 2:23:35 am)
Reply Re: Women in combat roles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason I'm asking is because someone I know is trying to get together a re-enactment group, and I told him that I would join up provided I'm not a nurse. I want to prove to him that women were soldiers or at the very least near the front lines.

maulkin



pdhinkle
Veteran Member
Posts: 657
(11/2/01 9:40:47 pm)
Reply Women in combat roles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Hanna Reitsch, wonder why they did not include her in the current Hitlers women on the History Channel. or was she?

oleg
Visitor
(11/2/01 9:49:26 pm)
Reply re
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
maulkin1 -should have join RKKA then:) It had women snipers, fighters-pilots, bomber pilots, tank drivers ( what kind of women is able to handle T-34 is beyond me)

;)

Annelie
Visitor
(11/2/01 11:38:23 pm)
Reply Re: Women in combat roles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe from what I have read Luftwaffe had "Luftwaffenhelfer" which did clerical duties and later entered combat roles but also Kriegsmarine had "Marinenanachrichtenhelferinnen" and according to J Pipes archives 200 were killed when Wilhelm Gustloff was sank in l945.

Annelie

Mr L L
Visitor
(11/3/01 4:16:10 am)
Reply Wehrmacht Support
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Blitzmaedchen

A very educational description of German female status and contribution towards war efforts is Prof. Dr. Franz W. Seidler’s book “Blitzmaedchen”. My copy is the original German edition, but I believe that there is also a translated book in English language. One should check with the military book dealers or availability in local libraries. .

Various articles on this subject can be found on web pages; by using some patience and a good search engine, one can accumulate a fairly descriptive material file.

One should remember the German dedication to their families and the ensuing respect the women received from the males -- a concept beyond our understanding in this age of enlightenment. This precluded any open combat activity in a sense of bolsheviks, who at Volkhov sent pregnant women against German SS to exploit their unwillingness to kill female fighters.

The German military rules classified the “Helferinnen” as non-military auxiliaries in uniform. In April and May 1945 all female auxiliaries were discharged from their duties and ordered to return home, if possible. Only a small portion were discharged by their German Offices. The Western Allies continued with the discharge and except for a small group of secretaries needed to indict their betters, the “Blitzmaedchen” were free. The bolsheviks, however, rounded most of them in their power and sent to “civilian” camps in Russia. (Karaganda, Kemerowo, Stalinsk and others). The survival rate, according to Dr. Seidler, was much smaller that the general survival of POW’s in russian bolshevik hands. Women in Josip Broz power, except for a very few, did not return, by knowing the brutality of post-war government of that region their fate can be only guessed.

An inquiry of personal interest: in 1945 on Baltic sea coast, I believe just east of Rostock, was a large camp for non-German Luftwaffenhelferinnen. I would appreciate information, however insignificant, about this camp and its occupants, One can e-mail me at
getit07@yahoo.com
or post it here in hopes to generate some more information of substance
without interference of nazi-hunters and grave-desecrators.

Mr. L. L.



orion47
Veteran Member
Posts: 206
(11/3/01 4:54:21 am)
Reply Re: Wehrmacht Support
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A very informative and useful post, L.L., until this part:

"...or post it here in hopes to generate some more information of substance without interference of nazi-hunters and grave-desecrators."

Can't imagine what you mean by that. Could you name for us one of these "nazi-hunters or grave-desecrators"?

Thanking you in advance,
~ Mike Miller
A x i s B i o g r a p h i c a l R e s e a r c h

Mr L L
Visitor
(11/3/01 6:46:24 am)
Reply Re: onion 47 --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
huggies, you just proved my point.

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 784
(11/3/01 4:40:25 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Women in combat roles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
maulkin1,

The various branches of the German military (including the Waffen-SS) had helferinnen that worked with communications etc.
I believe the Luftwaffe in particular employed women in a lot of roles, such as communications, air warning, plotting operators, flak crew helpers and serach light crews.

/Marcus

Marcus Wendel
Webmaster
Posts: 785
(11/3/01 4:41:59 pm)
Reply
ezSupporter
Re: Wehrmacht Support
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr LL,

"nazi-hunters or grave-desecrators"

Which in this forum do you consider to be the above and why?

/Marcus

dan
Visitor
(11/3/01 5:12:22 pm)
Reply Belching forth fire and lead
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey Maulkin, helping with an AA battery seems martial enough for me! At least you'd look better in one of those uniforms that what the Russian shot-putter types wore ;-)

orion47
Veteran Member
Posts: 207
(11/3/01 5:29:39 pm)
Reply L.L.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
L.L.,

You have no point. Any "point" you have is based on the illogical, absurd, and outrageous notion that I am a "Nazi hunter" or a "grave desecrator". Absolute rubbish, and I challenge you to offer ONE SINGLE item of proof to back up these allegations.

~ Mike Miller
A x i s B i o g r a p h i c a l R e s e a r c h





oleg
Visitor
(11/3/01 6:05:33 pm)
Reply re
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
pratt.edu/~rsilva/sovwomen.htm

:P

dan
Visitor
(11/3/01 6:12:03 pm)
Reply Not bad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That Anna Yeragova looks like Seven of Nine.

maulkin1
Member
Posts: 27
(11/5/01 2:07:03 am)
Reply Re: Wehrmacht Support
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. L.L.

"A very educational description of German female status and contribution towards war efforts is Prof. Dr. Franz W. Seidler’s book “Blitzmaedchen”. My copy is the original German edition, but I believe that there is also a translated book in English language. One should check with the military book dealers or availability in local libraries. .

You wouldn't happen to know what the English title is, would you? I did a search through my intra-state library loan and I also did a search through abebooks.com, which carries a lot of used & out of print foreign-language book titles--couldn't find it.

Thank you,
maulkin


Scott Smith 01
Veteran Member
Posts: 776
(11/5/01 3:13:28 am)
Reply
Prof. Dr. Franz W. Seidler’s book: Blitzmaedchen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi maulkin1,

I couldn’t find any English translations but here is some bibliographical information from the Library of Congress for a couple of Seidler’s books, which should be sufficient to get the German language versions from Interlibrary Loan if that helps.

Good Luck,
Scott

Blitzmädchen : d. Geschichte d. Helferinnen d. dt. Wehrmacht im Zweiten Weltkrieg / Franz W. Seidler.
Author : Seidler, Franz Wilhelm, 1933-
Publisher : Koblenz ; Bonn : Wehr und Wissen, 1979.
Holdings : No copies, please check with staff.
Description : 166 p. : ill., 6 maps ; 26 cm.
Notes : Bibliography: p. 161.
Includes index.
Subject Heading(s) : World War, 1939-1945--Participation, Female. Germany--Armed Forces--Women.
Women--Germany--History.

ISBN : 3803302889 : DM38.00
DBCN : 1363984
(Library of Congress Database Control Number)

Frauen zu den Waffen? : Marketenderinnen, Helferinnen, Soldatinnen : [Geschichte u. Bestandsaufnahme] / Franz W. Seidler.
Author : Seidler, Franz Wilhelm, 1933-
Publisher : Koblenz ; Bonn : Wehr und Wissen, 1978.
Holdings : No copies, please check with staff.
Description : xlviii, 413 p. : 135 ill. ; 24 cm.
Notes : Bibliography: p. 403-405.
Includes index.
Subject Heading(s) : Women soldiers.

ISBN : 380330265X : DM48.00
DBCN : 4183710

Edited by: Scott Smith 01 at: 11/5/01 3:16:09 am

Annelie
Visitor
(11/5/01 12:54:43 pm)
Reply Prof. Dr. Franz W. Seidler’s book: Blitzmaedchen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The book is available at (amazon.de)
cost DM 24.80
EUR 12.68

Cannot find any English version.

Return to “Women in the Reich”